[FT] SMLs and Banzai Jammers (long)

2 posts ยท Dec 10 1999 to Dec 12 1999

From: Izenberg, Noam <Noam.Izenberg@j...>

Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 10:45:54 -0500

Subject: Re: [FT] SMLs and Banzai Jammers (long)

From: Alan E and Carmel J Brain <aebrain@dynamite.com.au>

> As long as you wiggle your behind a little and have weapons covering

> ...just not hurt them _much_. Let's see, you get to fire maybe 4 SMs in
I wouldn't waste my SM's at that time. I'd be plinking your Jammers away with
class 3's, or waiting for my armored class 2 hedgehogs to dive in and blow a
hole in them.

> And on a floating table + cinematic movement, assume the pursuers

Assume they retreat. If you're attacking a position, or trying to occupy a
space it's your's for the taking. If you're defending a position, you've just
succeeded in your goal, at least for the time being. Basically you win without
firing a shot. What could be bad?

> Getting back to the Great Debate, here's my central thesis:

> a) Banzai Jamming is a 100% defence against SMs, when combined with

b) This is a Bad Thing Disagree. Preventing boring games is never a bad thing.

c) SMs are too powerful if Banzai Jamming is completely removed, All other
things being equal. SM's are balanced, (barely) as is IMO.

> Conclusion:

Answer: A class 3 or 4 beam. Class 4's are inefficient at close range
(3's
are a little better, but loose the long range 12"). Both have utility vs.
ships other than BJ's, Both can reduce effectiveness of BJ coverage.

> I've had some comments that a) isn't true. I remain convinced it is, as

FSE FB ships,as published, don't solve the problem the way I would. If I were
forced to use close to FB designs, I'd swarm the BJ line with Ibizas or San
Miguels modified to have 2 firecons, and trade corvettes for corvettes before
I unload SM's. My first choice would be a force with some Milans and Suffrens
modified to class 3 long range support. Not having tried it I can't say how
successful they would be, but I suspect it would have a reasonable shot.

> I've had some comments that b) isn't true, that without such a

Well, I argue b) isn't true, but not so much on behalf of NSL, which can do
well vs. SM's if they bring along enough Kronprinz's. I argue that it's not
a bad thing preventing blowout games - especialy in one-off scenarios as
opposed to campaigns, where circumstance _should_ conspire to have more
lopsided battles than straight fights.

> I've had no comments about c) being untrue (AFAIK). Certainly I've

The potentially most devastating FT player is one with the intuition to place
SM's properly the lion's share of the time. I dread one day having to
face him/her across a table, whether or not I have my Sheir/Karakau
jammers with me. Such a player would make the SM's look horrendously
unbalanced. I think they're barely balanced with players with "merely"
reasonable intuition.

> But seriously, I guess the only way of convincing you is for you to
If
> despite your best efforts you lose in exactly the way described above,

I would not want to use an unmodified FSE fleet vs. a fleet with
granaatscherven support. Well, I _might_ give it a try if I had a swarm
of
Ibizas. Howwever I don;t play SM fleets because I _don't_ have good
intuition about where the enemy is going to go. At least not good enough to
place SMs with confidence. Chances are, If I ever played as FSE (or IF), I'd
loose no matter the opposition due to sheer incompetence.  :-\

> About alternate tactics. Wave attacks, Fighter/SM mixes, Beam

> For FSE, Fighter/SM mixes are reasonable. I've tried them with some

Where'd your escorts/SM cruisers go? Did you keep them back while the
fighters took out the small stuff?

> Make SM's a late punch system instead of a fast strike system.

> "Late" is right. As in "The Late Arthur Dent". It's very much a case of

Depends on if you can keep the SM's out of harms way until the target is ripe.
No different than protecting a carrier, and SM ships are (usually) far better
able to keep out of range if they want to.

> Losing the ability

> If the opponent manouvres, you have enough of the CTE factor in aiming

Yet another reason I don't play with SM's.

> Well, that is a straw man, since level 4 screens are not a real game

> But if a 100% beam defence _did_ exist, would it not be neccessary to

If, then, I would proabably agree yes. But I disagree (as above) that this
defense is 100% vs.any but one kind of attack, an attack which, uncountered,
virtually guarantees a boring game. I fully endorse a system that is a close
to 100% defense against a boring game.

> Reminds me of when I was team leading some Israelis working on an IDF

Hah! My mom's a Sabra. Sounds like our daily family dinner conversation, back
in the day.

From: Sindre Cools Berg <cobos@saers.com>

> Though I agree with you on the need for small ships I see a problem

Ideally, the granaatscherven absorm _more_ than one slavo per unit. In a
recent game, mine soaked 2 and 3 at a time. Depends on your maneuvering and
your opponent's placement. There is indeed the risk of low return on
investment, but you keep your heavies protected. I get around the morale
effect with PSB. My Sheir/Karakau scouts can be operated by AI, but
their max thrust is reduced to 6 from 8 when used that way.

From: Beth Fulton <beth.fulton@m...>

Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 09:55:38 +1000

Subject: Re: [FT] SMLs and Banzai Jammers (long)

G'day Noam,

> The potentially most devastating FT player is one with the intuition to

OK I can't claim to be a mega-placer of SMs, but I think I do reasonably
well so I'll have a crack at this comment;) Think Showdown Noam, yeah sure I
toasted one of your big ships (and then listened to Jer at least question
whether or not they were too strong), but then I had nothing left and had to
try and last out the rest of the game flying at high speed in circles (cos I
couldn't just leave the table) in the hope you'd all hit the walls before I
did. Admittedly towards the end I did an amazing job of placing myself in the
perfect target position, but even if I hadn't I doubt that with all the beams
you had left that the
result would've been much different - the NSL beams won that game not my
SMs.

Cheers

Beth