[FT] Sensors

These senor ideas are very similar to what was on the list a couple of months
ago (but I can't remember who was taking part). If you can find the archives
look for stuff in the first week of November (around the 5th I think) under
Electronic Warfare. And a belated welcome to the new year (it's off to a hell
of a start already).

Tony. twilko@ozemail.com.au

> At 20:37 10/01/99 -0500, you wrote:

> Denny Graver wrote:

You have some good ideas and the mechanism for scanning is identical for the
standard beam rolls, so you're not having to look up for table results.

A few comments:

The range bands are not even. Standard sensor rules have a range of 54" for
basic sensors.

Sensor "hits" need to be resolved in a single turn without having to record
the level of "sensor" damage to the opposing ship. (Yet another "damage"
track?) Plus, to get any kind of sensor reading on an ESU superdreadnought
would take a vast number of turns to obtain.

If you rolled for sensors as beam weapons with rerolls added and
ECM acts as level-1 (basic), level-2 (enhanced), level-3 (superior)
screens,

0 hits No information
1 hit    Mass/TMF only and whether Mil or Civilian
2 hits Mass, Drives, Screens, Structure 3 hits Data on all onboard systems as
undamaged
4+ hits  As above but all ship details including damage

This way the sensor resolution is conducting without any bookkeeping
from turn-to-turn.

From: Jon Davis <davis@albany.net>

(snip easy, simple, in fact downright brilliant sensor rules suggestion)

> If you rolled for sensors as beam weapons with rerolls added and

I'd define it as: 0: sensor ghost, position uncertain 1: mass, active drive,
and position established, firing solution achieved 2: ship class identified
(if previously on file), screens, PDS, ADFC and fire controls detected 3:
individual ship identified (if previously on file), original (undamaged) SSD
known 4: as above but damage known

I suppose we'd call Individual ECM the same as stealth?

Sensors in the Campaign 98.

Sensor	   Range   vs ECM(jammer)

Passive      30"     15"

Normal	     60"     30"

E-sensor    120"     60"

S-sensor    240"    120"

1) A sensor can detect another sensor of the same type or lower grade. (note:
only sensor type is known, not type of ship that carries the sensor.) 2) Ships
with ECM may see thru the ECM they generate. (Area ECM does not 'stack' with
ship ECM to provide a two sensor
     level loss.   Area ECM provides the ECM coverage to ships within
12 inches of the carring ship, and only the ECM generating ship can see out of
the coverage normally.)

Thoughts.

Bye for now,

How about:

Basic Sensors: 4d at 12" Passive (18" active) Enhanced: 5d Superior: 6d

Roll to hit as for Beam weapons. Lose a Passive die at 12" increments; lose an
Active die at 18" increments.

# Hits: 0: No trace 1: Bogey 2: Mass & Firing Solution 3: Ship ID
4+: Damage reports

Stealth costs 5% of ship's mass per level (and something like Mass x 5 in
points) and acts as screens.  No mass-based breakpoints for penalties or
bonuses, but small ships will de facto find it cheaper to buy Stealth than
large ships, due to being a percentage based charge.

Example: Alarishi ship on patrol is using Superior passive sensors and comes
within 60" of a stealth-1 New Israeli ship (on a training exercise)
which has weapons hot. At 60" the AE ship rolls 1d; result is 4, which would
have detected a normal ship but fails against the Stealth effect. Next turn
the ships are 47" apart. The AE vessel rolls a 5 and a 2, registering one
"hit". The Alarishi skipper decides not to go with an active scan because
they're still out of weapons range, but they know there's a bogey out there.
Third turn, the Alarishi switch to active mode. The NI ship is at 30".
Superior 5d - 1d for range = 4d.  Rolls of 5, 3, 5, 4 mean two "hits",
enough for a firing solution. The AE vessel locks on fire control, which the
NI ship automatically detects.

Ideally you'd start off with numbered marker corresponding to numbered cards.
On each card's back would be a stealth level. If you get a hit, you can look
at the face of the card and see whether the marker is a "real" bogey or just a
rock.

I've put Phil Pournelle's sensor rules on my page:

> I've put Phil Pournelle's sensor rules on my page:

There have been some points raised about how to employ Fire Control Sensors
properly in an EW system. Some people want to use the FC as a searching
system. This is not accurate in my mind, because it is a pencil wide beam,
like looking through a straw, you're just not going to get much.
On the other hand, once you get a lock, its difficult to break.    So my
thought is this. The FC sensor can be integrated with my original rules in
this manner.  The FC acts as a sensor and gets a die modifier of +6 or
possible up to +8 but against a /single/ target or bearing.  So if you
think there is something out there, like a bogey, turn the FC director onto
it. If you are successfull, you gain a fire control lock and can fire away.
Just keep in mind, the other guy can counter detect that out a lot further and
is going to know its a Fire Control Director.

Thank you for a very good approach to using sensors. While not being overly
complex, or dice heavy, I think that the conditional statements do add some
complexity (I've got two ecm on this boat, they've got superior sensors, let's
see that makes them basic at 24, they know my mass which I could adjust
upwards of 100... hmm not too bad).

 It does seem the point costs for Enhanced/Superior Sensors and ECM is a
bit low. I believe that MT rates Enhanced Sensors @ 15 points and Superior
@ 30.
ECM is also rated at 20 points and 30 points for area effect. Since you're
doing the ECM as packages which effect the sensors perhaps costing them at 15
points apiece is reasonable.  - Aron

I'm assuming that each ship has a drone decoy which they can launch at any
time.
Is this how run your decoys?  - Aron

Roger Books <books@mail.state.fl.us> on 09/09/99 09:39:12 AM

Any comments?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
EWM/ECM

? Visual detection, within 12 inches all information on the opposing ships may
be detected visually, you may look at your opponent's sheet to see any of
their ships within 12 inches.

- Visual detection for fighters, reduce the range to 6 inches.

? Electronic detection? Within 12 inches all information as for visual
detection.? Within 24 inches apparent mass of ship (this may be modified by
ECM)? Within 36 inches targeting information only

? Enhanced sensors? Enhanced sensors take up 1 mass and cost 5 points?
Enhanced sensors extend the range brackets by 1, so 1. Within 24 inches as for
visual 2. Within 36 apparent mass 3. Within 48 targeting information? Enhanced
sensor information is available Fleet wide to the owning player.? Enhanced
sensor information may be made available to any local allies.

? Superior sensors? Superior sensors take up 2 mass and cost 10 points?
Superior sensors extend the range brackets by 2.? Superior sensor information
is available Fleet wide to the owning player.? Superior sensor information may
be made available to any local allies.

? ECM systems? Each ECM system takes 1 mass and costs 5 points? Range brackets
may be reduced by one using one or more ECM systems,
    they do not add.   So.
4. Within 12 inches mass only (although your opponent will then use visual) 5.
Within 24 inches targeting.? In mass detection ranges the mass of the ship may
be enhanced to appear as up to 50 mass greater per ECM used. For example an
ECM scout of mass 12 with 3 ECM systems could look like a capital ship of mass
162.

? ECM/sensor interaction
? An ECM system when used for range bracket lowering cancels the affects of
enhanced sensors (so the ship acts as if it had normal sensors).? An ECM
system when used for range bracket lowering decreases the affects of superior
sensors so they behave like enhanced sensors.? ECM benefits apply only to the
ships equipped with ECM.

One of the things about Sensors is that you want the Sensor not to be sure how
much is actually there, and the Target not to be sure how much has actually
been seen. It occurred to me that one way to accomplish this is to take a set
of index cards and mark one side with a Signature rating. On the other side of
each card, write in what the sensor can see.

I'm thinking about the mechanics of how the sensor gets its report rather than
exactly how the sensor levels and ECM measures interact, so let's say you've
got a sensor rating as follows: 0 = identify deployed fighters and missiles 1
= detect deployed fighters and missiles, identify escorts
2 = detect escorts, identify cruisers (apparent mass 51-100)
3 = detect cruisers, identify BC-BDNs
4 = detect BC-BDNs, identify SDNs and above
5 = detect SDNs and above (obviously you can make this more detailed depending
on how you want to handle sensor ratings, stealth, ECM and so forth, but i
don't want to type all that).

For your squadron (2 BB, 2 DD, 1 weasel set for CH) you'd write on the back of
these cards:
[5] no signal
[4] 2 bogies
[3] 2 BBs, 1 bogey
[2] 2 BBs, 1 weasel imitating CH, 2 bogeys
[1] 2 BBs, 1 weasel imitating CH, 2 DDs
[0] 2 BBs, 1 weasel imitating CH, 2 DDs

So when your opponent wants to make a sensor attempt, you hand him the stack
and look away. He goes to the right card (based on whatever
criterion you want--range, sensor ability, dice, etc) , looks on the
back, and puts the cards back in order. You don't know what he's seen; he
doesn't know whether there are other ships that he hasn't seen.

You can use modifiers (eg "Under Thrust, +2 to signature; Area ECM, -1
signature"), but you can't easily use modifiers that don't apply equally to
all ships in the squadron (for instance, if you want Thrust 6 to add +6
signature for a BB but only +2 for a DD).