Basic Sensors
Rationale: Why do we want sensor rules? I see the primary purpose is to allow
"ambushes" and the "fog of war" to intrude, to add to the gaming experience.
The Tuffleyverse background already mentions at least one "ambush", so it
would be nice if we could come up with some rules that would allow this, while
retaining the usual simplicity of everything on the table being visible. A
secondary purpose would be to allow some "rigidly defined degree of
uncertainty" when setting up a
tactical game - what can be seen within a star system
for example.
To this end, I propose the following rules:
Universal Modifiers:
===================
Double Distances below for each of: * Improved Sensors on locator. * Target
identified in the previous turn. * Target is Civilian or Natural Feature.
Halve Distance for each of: * Target Stealthed * In Cover (ie amongst
asteroids, nebulae etc) * Obscured (ie behind a planet, moored to an asteroid
and camauflage netting over it etc) * Using Civilian Sensors or those on board
a fighter
This is cumulative, so if a target is moored to an asteroid, camauflaged, and
in cover in an asteroid field, distance would be quartered.
In addition, targets may increase their signature so they can be detected at a
longer range, but never decrease it.
DETECTION:
Detection gives the following information about the target: Position,
Direction of movement, and acceleration.
("Thrust 2", or "Fighter Move 18" for example - if fighters
are escorting or moving in close formation (1") with ships, the dector
receives the ship's acceleration not the fighters.)
Once detected, a FC can be allocated to the target. FCs have an effective
range of 200*, and any target within this range will be continuously detected
provided an FC is devoted to it.
A ship, asteroid or other object that has been detected but
not identified is represented by a "blip" counter - traditionally
a ping-pong ball on a stand. Additional information - "Military",
"ADAF" "Thrust 4" etc is best represented by counters.
Any number of Ships, Fighters etc that are within 1" of each other are
represented by 1 Blip, providing all are within 2" of each other, and they all
have the same course, speed and acceleration.
A ship is detected if it is Identified (see below), but the converse is not
neccessarily true.
Passive Detection:
=================
Any target that Operates Civilian Active Search sensors, Military Active
Search Sensors, or ADAF is detected at a range of 1000** by passive sensors.
The opponent must be told which of the sensor types above is operating. Note
that a target using Military Active Search sensors may deliberately use them
at low power, in which case
they are detected (and detect - see below) as if they were
Civilian Active Search sensors. FCs that are allocated against the detecting
vessel are themselves detected at a range of 2000***.
Weapons are detected at a range of (Max Range x 10) by Military. The opponent
must be told exactly which weapon type is
operating, and which mode ( for example, Pulsar-C not
just Pulsar).
Weapons and FCs that cause detection reveal the nationality of the ship's
builder (not neccessarily the owner...)
Active Detection:
================
A ship using active search sensors can detect targets at up to 3x the
identification distance (see below). Military grade active search sensors
operating in reduced power mode have their range halved, of course.
IDENTIFICATION:
Passive Identification:
======================
On the first turn of identification, put on the models for the ships that have
been identified. If there are no ships left in the blip that are unidentified,
remove the blip (if any).
On the second turn, the ship's general class (military, civilian, asteroid,
Space Dragon) is revealed. So if using models that are not representative of
the actual ship, you must declare with accuracy what class the ship is, it's
role (Battlecruiser etc) and nationality.
On the third and following turns, the ship's SSD is revealed.
A target ship is Identified by passive means within the following distance:
Mass x (0.001 + (Warp Core On board) x 1 + (Thrust Used) x 1)
So a 54 mass ship will be identified at 54.054" if not thrusting, unless it
has dumped its core.
Fighters and Missiles are identified at three times their
move - so a normal fighter would be ID'd at 72" (3 x 24)
Asteroids etc have masses in the thousands to Billions, so are identified from
20" (for an asteroid about the size of a small house) to much further.
Otherwise the 0.001 factor can safely be ignored.
Active Identification:
=====================
A ship using active search sensors will identify a target at a range of 36".
EXAMPLE:
Ambush! A Heavy Cruiser of mass 80 is sitting amongst some asteroids, in
"Silent Running" mode. It is attached to one asteroid, of about the same size
(a small one) and has had lightweight
covers erected by vac-suited crew to camauflage it. It is
not stealthed.
A Battlecruiser of mass 100 enters the area at thrust-2 with
its active sensors on in reduced-power mode (pretending to be
a merchantman).
The BC is detectable at: Base 1000 because it is using civilian active sensors
(or the equivalent) Halved because the CA is amongst asteroids, so the BC is
in cover.
So the BC appears on the CAs screens as a "Possible Merchantman" at range 500.
Had it not been operating its active sensors, it would have been
detectable at its identification distance -
(1 (for warp core aboard) + 2 (thrust-2) ) x 100 (Mass 100),
halved because it's in cover, or 150.
The CA identifies the BC at 150 range. No merchantmen, this...
The BC detects some of the asteroids at a long distance, but
the 80-mass one that the CA is hiding alongside only at 54".
This is calculated as follows:
Basic range of Active Sensors - 3 x 36".
Halved because of operating in low-power mode
Halved again because the asteroid is amongst other asteroids, ie in cover.
Doubled because the asteroid is a civilian target or natural feature.
The CA itself would normally be detected at 27" by active sensors. The wiley
captain, however, will be hiding within the blip of the asteroid.
I would make an amending suggestion. For ships with weapons that have a
maximum range greater than 36, the identify range is equal to the longest
range weapon on board.
Examples:
Komorov SDN (Class-4 Beams)
Any Sa'Vasku with 8 power points (using 12mu range bands) Any Sa'Vasku with 16
power points (using 9mu range bands)
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Interesting stuff, I was thinking on something like this for the SF campaign I
was planning. Nothing makes players sweat like not KNOWING what something is.
Is it a carrier or a supertanker?;)
Some of it seemed, at the very first glance, dreadfully complicated (like
the 0.001*mass + 1*warp capable + 1xthrust), but once you realize that
for a jump capable ship the first factor is irrelevant, similarly for a ship
under thrust, it's suddenly a lot less intimidating.
I suspect giving a playtest or two, they'd be quite workable for my use at
least:)
Who cares about the 'dull weapon stuff', when you don't even know where your
enemy is, huh?
Cheers,
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> On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Bell, Brian K (Contractor) wrote:
> I would make an amending suggestion.
Err. This one is already identifiable by passive means at 220 (actually
220.220), due to it's mass of 220?
> Any Sa'Vasku with 8 power points (using 12mu range bands)
Smallest example: STING, passive identifiable at 40.04, reach 60"
I can see your point here.
> Any Sa'Vasku with 16 power points (using 9mu range bands)
Smallest example: SLINKY, passive identifiable at 64.064, reach 55"
So, with the adjusted range bands, there is no reason to make this
modification. Or am I misunderstanding things here?
Oh, and as for power 32 ships, that does not occur until a mass of 160 is
reach (detection at 160.160)
Cheers,
You misunderstood my point.
Komorov or other ship with weapon range in excess of 36 trying to identify a
group of mass 18 Minerva FFs at a range of 48 (FF are thrusting 1, but giving
out signals as). Passive identification range is 36" (OK
36.018"),
so it is out of range. So the Komorov turns on active sensors, but active
sensor identification is only 36". Should the Komorov blast the unknown blips
within its weapons range or wait until they get to 36".
If identificaiton is based on 36mu, a ship with a class-4 beam (or
equivilent) would be shooting at an unidentified target at its long range.
Thus the suggestion for the change that a ship with weapons that reach further
than 36mu have thier sensor identification based on the maximum range of thier
longest range weapon. So the Komorov could identify anything within weapons
range.
-----
Brian Bell
-----
> -----Original Message-----
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> On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Bell, Brian K (Contractor) wrote:
> You misunderstood my point.
Tough choice to make.
> If identificaiton is based on 36mu, a ship with a class-4 beam (or
Or at a target that si ASSUMED hostile, e.g. not sticking to regular shipping
routes, in prohibited air space, etc.
> Thus the suggestion for the change that a ship with weapons that reach
Personally, I have no problem with some of the really long range weapons
outranging the Identification range. Makes for some interesting scenarios
(Sir, the bogeys are in engagement range, should I open fire? - Wait for
id - But sir...)...
This would allow for some variety in game play that could be interesting?
Especially since the opposing player has to elect to almost coast in to get
this advantage, I don't mind much at all. One serious bout of thrust and he'd
be identified.
Mind you, I'm not thinking competitive n points battles here. Mainly thinking
scenarios.
Cheers,
Yep. Interesting scenarios. Sector is under "radio silence" and "quiet mode".
You don't know if they are friendlies getting close enough for
point-to-point communications or if they are a group of stingships
closing in for the kill.
-----
Brian Bell
-----
> -----Original Message-----
In this kind of scenario, you'd probably actually want... gulp... scouts?
Basically expendable ships who could go see what those bogeys were so they
could be engaged?
I wonder too given the invulnerability of fighters to anything but other
fighters or Kra'vak scatterguns (until they attack) whether they wouldn't be
the right vehicle for sensor scouts. They could be fitted with sensors instead
of guns and scout ahead of the fleet. Could explain why some SDNs have 1
fighter squadron (not much good on the attack, but great for scouting because
they can get there fast and can't be shot down).
--- "Bell, Brian K (Contractor)"
> <Brian.Bell@dscc.dla.mil> wrote:
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> > e2HyA5sYaPQG1J4BhCYBHjo=
True, but then why would you have scouts? Yes. scouting other systems
without endangering a carrier. And inter-system communication (courier
duties). I would prefer NOT to see fighters used in this way. I would prefer
to give the picket duties to CTs or FFs.
I always assumed that the primary duty of the BDN and SDN fighter groups was
to screen the BDN or SDN *from* other fighters and missiles (with only a
secondary roll as an attack asset). Keeps you from having to bring a carrier
to _every_ duty of the BDN or SDN.
Makes me wish, once again, that there were more people in my area that played
FT. It would give me an excuse to use the 20 or so scouts I have.
-----
Brian Bell
-----
> -----Original Message-----
--- "Bell, Brian K (Contractor)"
> <Brian.Bell@dscc.dla.mil> wrote:
Yes, but if you want the fastest possible ID, a fighter that can go 24" (or
even 36") in any direction is a pretty seductive asset isn't it?
I'm talking about scouting for the fleet, not scouting in systems the fleet
isn't in, so no FTL would be required.
But even if we use regular scouts, that works too. Might even equip them with
superior sensors. If the enemy destroys them, that's proof of their
intentions.
> I always assumed that the primary duty of the BDN
I'm not sure how much defense one fighter squadron
can be against a 4-6 squadron group. We've found
that if one side has fighters in any significant numbers and the other
doesn't, the other side is toast (unless he's unusually well protected by ADEF
pds).
> Makes me wish, once again, that there were more
Where do you live?
In a campaign setting I would also apply an endurance factor on
non-attacking fighters. 1 per 3 turns they move, but are not in combat.
This would give them a maximum range of 9 turns out (216mu) and 9 turns back*.
Of course if they get caught more than 3 turns out, they are down on
endurance.
Fighters are fast, but should not have unlimited fuel or unlimited
flexibility.
-----
Brian Bell
-----
* assums fighters do not conserve momentum. If they conserve momentum, they
would get further 4 turns out (240mu), 4 turns to slow to a stop (240mu for a
total of 480mu), then burn back (assumes no coasting). But again if they run
into something moveing that fast, they could not slow down do do anything
about it.
> -----Original Message-----
> At 7:31 AM -0700 6/26/01, David Griffin wrote:
Or,...gasp... small frigates, destroyers and such to act as longer ranged
sensor pickets!
Sensor rules that are sophisticated and introduce more chances for
role-playing or at least fog of war are much more interesting in the
game I think.
> I wonder too given the invulnerability of fighters
Thats why I have a Vandenburg Cruiser variant with a 2 fighter hanger for
acting as scouts. Just like in the days of Coal Bunkers and primitive wireless
communication....
> At 8:03 AM -0700 6/26/01, David Griffin wrote:
But that fighter is only going to give you a visual ID. No active scans mind
you. Thats what a dedicated Scout with Enhanced or
Superior active sensors and/or a SWACs is for....
> But even if we use regular scouts, that works too.
But that still leaves you in an information void. What if they were
intercepted by fighters? Could there be a carrier there? Were they intercepted
by smaller vessels that have area defense?
[quoted original message omitted]
> --- Bif Smith <bif@bifsmith.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
...
> The problem with using fighters would be the fact
In threat areas my ships are seldom going 24mu. Not even in potential threat
areas. Of course there are no rules to equip fighters with sensors though you
might argue that they have basic sensors just in their normal state.
> At 10:55 AM -0700 6/26/01, David Griffin wrote:
Don't confuse relative with absolute velocity. Two task forces moving at 50mu
could in relation to each other have very low relative velocities....
[quoted original message omitted]
> At 10:55 26/06/01 -0700, you wrote:
In the camapign we ran a couple of years ago we gave fighters a range of
18MU passive and 27MU active.
you can have a look at these here
> I would make an amending suggestion.
I'd thought about this. But if you use some examples, you'll find that any
time a Komarov is up against anything larger than a Frigate, it will ID it
under
normal circumstances quite adequately. And if it's up against 3-mass
scouts running silent in a nebula, maybe its weapons range *should* exceed
it's
ability to ID them.