I mentioned that I was working on a large scale game (40 or so ships on each
side) about a month ago; it's been on hold ever since, due to the untimely
demise of my printer. I've gotten back to work on it, though, and I even have
a scenario to work with.
The attackers have about 35 ships, standard NSL designs out of FB1 with a
preponderance of CH and BC classes -- nine Battlecruisers, actually, of
three different styles.
The defenders have three groups of ships, ranging from 8 to 12 in each group.
The designs will be standard NAC, FSE, and ESU ships...again, right out of
FB1. I might be giving some of the ESU designs some version of the EFSB Heavy
Beam Weapon (I'm using the GW Imperial miniatures for these ships), just for
laughs.
Each of these three groups will have 5 or 6 civilian ships assigned to them,
unarmed with anything heavier than PDS and maybe a Class 1 battery or two. One
of these ships, at the players' discretion, will be replaced with
a Q-Ship, armed with a lot of Submunition Packs and Class 1 batteries.
Lastly, the defenders have a stationary base, built into an asteroid. The base
will have a good amount of armor, no screens, and a scattering of PDS and
small beam batteries. Oh, and maybe a squadron or two of fighters.
The board will be 5X12 feet. The Northern half will be mostly clear, with a
scattering of asteroids. The Southern half will be more densely populated with
asteroids, as well as that big asteroid base.
The attackers will enter from the Northern board edge, at a maximum
velocity of 6. Their primary objective will be to destroy -- or
preferably
capture -- the civilian ships. The secondary objective is to destroy
the asteroid base, and their tertiary objective is to kill as many of the
defenders' ship as possible.
The defenders will be scattered along the Southern edge of the board; the
starting velocity of each ship is equal to its Thrust Factors -- they
didn't have a lot of warning before the attackers arrived. The defenders'
primary objective is to get the civilian ships off of the Northern board edge,
with a maximum velocity of 6, and to keep them as intact as possible.
Secondary objective is to defend the base, tertiary is to kill enemy ships.
To give the defenders a better chance of getting their charges to safety, I
will give them the option of assigning an escort to each civilian ship.
The escort will have to remain in base-to-base combat with the ship that
it is guarding (for range purposes, both ships will be assumed to be located
at the centerpoint of the civilian ship), and must maintain the same velocity
and maneuvers as that ship.
Whenever an escorted ship is the target of enemy fire, the escort may elect to
attempt to intercept the attack. In order to do so, the escort must
roll less than its current Thrust Factor on 1d6 -- if it succeeds in
this roll, the attacks are resolved as if the escort was the original target.
The escort may only block attacks from one, and only one, enemy ship in the
course of a single turn. Any number of attacks may be intercepted in this
fashion, as long as they are from the same source, but the escort will only
need to roll for the initial attack.
(I know that this isn't a particularly realistic rule, but without this the
attackers should have little or no problem picking the civilian ships off.
Plus, this will give the defenders more reason to use their smaller ships.
Besides, if I wanted realism I wouldn't be playing with little spaceships....)
So what have I forgotten? We'll be using cinematic movement, and these
players generally limit themselves to velocities of 12 or less --
something that the "terrain" should tend to encourage. I'll be giving the
defenders a slight point advantage; I haven't determined exactly how much yet.
Does everything seem fair and workable? We haven't done anything on
this scale before -- our previous games have had a total of maybe 20 or
25 ships on the table. This game will involve 80 or 90, and that's quite a
different prospect.
To make escort duties more viable, try this rule:
A ship may put in its orders that it is escorting a certain friendly ship X
(provided it has sufficient thrust to match course and velocity with X), and
protecting a single quadrant of ship X (F, A, P or S). Attacks in that
quadrant against ship X count X as having one additional level of screens (up
to a max of two), and a number of dice equal to the amount of damage prevented
by the escort is rolled as an attack against the escort.
The attacker is effectively penalized for trying to fire past the escort to
attack the target, yet the escort can pay a price for doing his duty and can
also be outmaneouvred or overwhelmed by multiple attackers. Also, an escort
which is relatively small relative to the target may be destroyed as a
consequence of interposing itself against incoming fire.
> On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 08:59:46 -0400, "McCarthy, Tom" writes:
The trouble with this is you're trading a point of damage from the shielded
ship for 0.8 points ti the shielding ship. So there's a net drop in the amount
of damage being done. Thats if the shielding ship
has no shields, it gets much worse if the ship has shields. Maybe 2-3
dice per point intercepted. Or a point + a roll. It has to take the
original damage (since the shielded ship didn't get hit), and this might touch
off other damage issues, thus the roll.
I suggested an escorting scheme which not only reduced the damage to the
target ship, but also caused a net loss of damage inflicted. Matthew suggested
this was an error, but I had done this intentionally, and it comes down to PSB
who's right.
If the escorting ship is physically interposing itself in order to take the
hit, then yes, it should take probably take all the damage aimed at the
target. If it is interposing itself semi-successfully but deliberately,
the target should take some damage and the escort should take some, possibly
with a net increase in damage done. If the escort is using countermeasures and
ECM to protect the target and itself and happens to be hit by some misdirected
fire, than the target should take some damage and the escort should take some,
but there should be a net reduction in damage inflicted by the attacker.
The situation I deliberately tried to create was one where you could
outmaneouvre the escort to attack the target at 100% efficiency, but if the
escort outmaneouvred you, you had to attack the escort at 100% or the target
at something less than 100%. The escort has surrendered any movement freedom
he might have, so I choose to penalize or force a choice on the attacker then,
not the defender. Your suggestion is that I should be able to choose between
attacking the escort at 100% or the target at 80% with the extra 20% plus some
extra applied to the escort, which I find unpalatable.
I said I find it unpalatable; both are workable rules and people should use
the one they prefer.
> On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:44:36 -0400, "McCarthy, Tom" writes:
I appologize if I said it was "wrong". Just that I was worried about other
applications.
> If the escorting ship is physically interposing itself in order to take
My worry is that with a net reduction, you could build pairs of ships, one
with shields, and one without. Then have the shielded ship escort the
unshielded one. Attacks the the shielded ship are as normal. Attacks on the un
shielded ship end up doing net damage equal to about level 0.5 shields. So its
the ebtter target, but you get a net increase in mass available for weapons
with no loss. Or you're getting level 0.5 shields for free. Thats what worries
me.
I think doing not more damage is acceptable, as the civi ship takes less
damage than it should, and the military ship ends up taking less damage than
if it was targeted directly. I just worry that if there
isn't a down-side to this escorting, military ships will do it to each
other, and not just to merchants in a time of need.
> A ship may put in its orders that it is escorting a certain friendly
The idea is to make excorting as quick and easy as possible, while still
making it effective; that's why I decided not to worry about specific arcs.
With this game in particular, there's going to be so much going on that I
don't want to worry about the fiddly bits.
> The attacker is effectively penalized for trying to fire past the
The escorts *will* be taking damage -- the damage that the ships that
they are protecting would normally be taking (assuming that the escorts have
good rolls....) And I expect most of the escorts to pay the ultimate price:
being blown into little tiny bits.
> A ship may put in its orders that it is escorting a certain friendly
The idea is to make excorting as quick and easy as possible, while still
making it effective; that's why I decided not to worry about specific arcs.
With this game in particular, there's going to be so much going on that I
don't want to worry about the fiddly bits.
> The attacker is effectively penalized for trying to fire past the
The escorts *will* be taking damage -- the damage that the ships that
they are protecting would normally be taking (assuming that the escorts have
good rolls....) And I expect most of the escorts to pay the ultimate price:
being blown into little tiny bits.
I hadn't thought about escorts protecting other military ships, but I don't
think that it will be a huge problem. I'll just make it clear that the ship
that is being protected will not be able to fire at the ship that it is being
protected *from*, and that no ship can have more than one escort at a single
time.
> On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 18:18:57 GMT, "John C" writes:
While 4 arcs might get a little fiddley, I might go with 2 arcs, and
allow 2 escorts. Where-ever teh escorting model is, it determines a
plane between the two ships, and fire that comes in from that 180 degree arc
is intercepted. Allows the enemy to use fast raiders to get to the other side
of the protected ship. More options is good.:)
> The attacker is effectively penalized for trying to fire past the
> being blown into little tiny bits.
Might also do something like limit the ship being escorted to only firing at
targets withen 12" through an escorted arc. Wouldn't effect
the merchants with only class-1 beams, but would hurt a warship.
So, summary of what I like (but this is just my opinion):
Ships can escort other ships.
max 2 escorts for a single ship, each covering a non-overlapping 180
degree arc.
Escorting ship grants the escorted ship level+1 shields. (for only
one attacker or for all? If only for one, just fire 2-3 ships at the
merchants.)
Escorting ship takes any damage that the level+1 shields stop, but no
more. Adds no extra rolls to the system.
Escorted ship is limited to only firing at enemies withen 12" through any arc
with escorts.
This also opens up the idea of escorting an all class-1 BC up close to
the enemy base.:)
> So, summary of what I like (but this is just my opinion):
Hmmm, would there be a condition that the escorting ship have higher thrust
that the escorted ship? I would think the escorting ship must have at least 2
more points of thrust than the escorted ship to allow for all of the course
corrections required to stay between the escorted ship and those firing. This
would also make it more likely that smaller ships are escorting larger ones
instead of the other way around.