FT: Pre-read questions

25 posts ยท Feb 4 2002 to Feb 6 2002

From: Laserlight <laserlight@q...>

Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 16:41:06 -0500

Subject: RE: Re: FT: Pre-read questions

> Cool, doesn't sound like too huge an outlay to start. Do most fleets

Large ships are proportionately stronger than small ships, so if you have a
superdreadnaught squadron on one side and equal points of frigates on the
other, the frigates are going to have a hard time. Of course, if you want a
campaign game, a big ship can only be in one place at a time. A reasonable
force to start with would be something like 2 battleships, 2 heavy cruisers, 4
light cruisers, 4 destroyers. Depends
on your budget and style, of course--if you want to substitute a
carrier, or go for a force with a heavy cruiser flagship and the rest
destroyers and frigates, or a line-of-battle superdreadnaught squadron
with a couple of corvette scouts, go right ahead.

From: Allan Goodall <agoodall@a...>

Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 15:45:40 -0600

Subject: Re: FT: Pre-read questions

On Mon, 04 Feb 2002 11:06:31 -0800, Sean Bayan Schoonmaker
> <s_schoon@pacbell.net> wrote:

> 2) How is FTL travel handled? Is it a jump (al la B5), a "Warp" al

This is true, however I'll make two points.

First, the Earthforce Sourcebook for the B5 RPG has a B5 version of FT in it
(by Jon Tuffley), so you can easily take the B5 ideas from that.

Second, it's generic enough that you can easily make up your own rules. Jon
makes a jump gate figure set (I have it). It's very easy to say, "Only ships
with FTL can jump anywhere, all others jump at the jump gate", or even, "No
ship can jump through a jump gate without an FTL drive."

House/scenario rules like this are very easy to cobble together. The
flexibility of the game can't be stressed enough.

From: Allan Goodall <agoodall@a...>

Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 15:49:36 -0600

Subject: Re: FT: Pre-read questions

On Mon, 04 Feb 2002 12:16:50 -0800, "Brian Bilderback"
> <bbilderback@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Cool, doesn't sound like too huge an outlay to start. Do most fleets

You might want to go to my web site and see the stats we've used for
tournaments at past GenCons. They include pre-designed ship fleets in
the 1500 point range. Pick one of these a side and you'll have a good game
that lasts anywhere from 1 to 3 hours (the tournament rules were designed for
games running no more than 1 hour, 45 minutes).

They can be found at http://ft.hyperbear.com

Note that these fleets aren't what you'd call "typical" as there are no
"typical" fleets. Players either build their own to a point value, play
scenarios, pick ships from the fleet books, or play the game from a campaign
system. Every group will play the game differently.

From: Brian Bilderback <bbilderback@h...>

Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 14:38:44 -0800

Subject: Re: FT: Pre-read questions

> Roger Burton West wrote:

> >Cool, doesn't sound like too huge an outlay to start. Do most fleets

Practical.

> >>Somewhat akin to ST or SW, though not exactly either.

Interesting.  I wonder if anyone's tried recreating the in-and-out
scenario recounted in Dorsai!....

> >I'm thinking of, once I've learned the game, designing a "Cutter,"

I'm assuming you mean small FTL ships that can move it from one system to
another?

> >By the way, do the rules cover things like asteroid bases, etc.?

Sounds like a good way of doing it, though you'd think that the asteroid

itself might add some protection from fire in certain arcs...

2B^2

From: Brian Bilderback <bbilderback@h...>

Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 14:40:24 -0800

Subject: Re: FT: Pre-read questions

> Sean Bayan Schoonmaker wrote:

> > Cool, I have some bits and stuff as well as some B5 figs that will

I never use them as B5 ships, i just like the designs. I'm notorious for
taking figs from any given gaming system and using them in any other system I
choose.

2B^2

From: Roger Burton West <roger@f...>

Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 22:49:46 +0000

Subject: Re: FT: Pre-read questions

> On Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 02:40:24PM -0800, Brian Bilderback wrote:

> I'm notorious for

You've come to the right place, then! Jon is very specific in all the
published FT material that, while he'd be happy for you to buy the official
figures for the canon background, there is absolutely no pressure for you to
do so (or indeed even to use said canon background).

From: Beth Fulton <beth.fulton@m...>

Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 11:12:13 +1100

Subject: RE: FT: Pre-read questions

G'day

> I'm thinking of, once I've learned the game, designing a "Cutter,"

Just be wary of the fact that for "pick-up games" (i.e. not part of a
scenario of campaign) that this can be potentially unbalancing as they're not
paying for FTL and so can pack on more weapons for their mass whereas the FTL
capable ships are paying for something that doesn't really help them in game.

Cheers

From: Laserlight <laserlight@q...>

Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 19:18:55 -0500

Subject: Re: FT: Pre-read questions

> > I'm thinking of, once I've learned the game, designing a "Cutter,"

From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@y...>

Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 16:39:38 -0800 (PST)

Subject: Re: FT: Pre-read questions

> --- Laserlight <laserlight@quixnet.net> wrote:

> Add 10% to their cost to make up for it.

Actually, more than that. Considerably so.

From: Brian Bilderback <bbilderback@h...>

Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 16:40:42 -0800

Subject: Re: FT: Pre-read questions

> Beth Wrote:

> > > I'm thinking of, once I've learned the game, designing a "Cutter,"

I'm a big fan of campaigns and scenarios, so it will be less of an issue for
me, but I'll definitely remember that....

> Then Laerlight wrote:

> Add 10% to their cost to make up for it.

Either that or come up with new House Rules or scenario settings that make FTL
help mor in the game itself. Once I've actually rrad and played the

game, i'll feel more qualified to actually implement such ideas.

2B^2

From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@y...>

Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 16:52:16 -0800 (PST)

Subject: Re: FT: Pre-read questions

> --- Brian Bilderback <bbilderback@hotmail.com> wrote:

> 1) what size of naval units is the game designed to

You can easily go as high as 30 or so ships with no problem.

> 2) How is FTL travel handled? Is it a jump (al la

Canonically (reference: FT:FB) it's a series of short jumps.

> 3) How common are non-FTL system defense ships, and

Unknown canonically speaking. The only website I've seen with extensive
treatment of system defense craft is... well, not to blow my own horn, mine.
My SDBs are 14 mass, but I've got Mass 250 System Defense Monitors defending
New Constantinople.

From: Brian Bilderback <bbilderback@h...>

Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 17:02:33 -0800

Subject: Re: FT: Pre-read questions

> John Atkinson wrote:

Except the strain on one's gaming budget.

> > 2) How is FTL travel handled? Is it a jump (al la

Thanks, I'm getting a picture of it. Can't wait to get the game.

> > 3) How common are non-FTL system defense ships, and

Monitors, that's another good term for a class. Thanks. What does SDB stand
for?

2B^2

From: Beth Fulton <beth.fulton@m...>

Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 12:03:24 +1100

Subject: RE: FT: Pre-read questions

G'day,

> Unknown canonically speaking. The only website I've

Some of this will come down to national "ego" almost I reckon. In that (OK
speaking for myself here) I have a bunch of small STL defense ships for the
IAS, but I just assumed that the bigger stuff would have FTL so I could get it
around and as it was stationed around my single star system it doubled up as
defense and so I didn't need extra STL stuff of the same size (barring my
asteroid bases). So the small guys aren't necessarily going to have BIG STL
ships as they want their BIG ships to be FTL capable, whereas the large
nations (NR included) have enough flex to spend stuff on BIG STL defense
systems if they want (though they also have the navy to come kick butt
anyway). I hope that made sense;)

Cheers

From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@y...>

Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 17:07:56 -0800 (PST)

Subject: RE: FT: Pre-read questions

> --- Beth.Fulton@csiro.au wrote:

> Some of this will come down to national "ego" almost

Which the NRE has in freakin' spades.

:)

From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@y...>

Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 17:10:14 -0800 (PST)

Subject: Re: FT: Pre-read questions

> --- Brian Bilderback <bbilderback@hotmail.com> wrote:

> >You can easily go as high as 30 or so ships with no

You should see the assortment Don's working up for the NRE. Over 100 ships.

> Monitors, that's another good term for a class.

System Defense Boats.  Corvette-sized.  I've also got
SDD and SDC: System Defense Destroyers and System Defense Cruisers.

From: Brian Bilderback <bbilderback@h...>

Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 17:17:47 -0800

Subject: Re: FT: Pre-read questions

> John Atkinson wrote:

> > >You can easily go as high as 30 or so ships with no

You should see a redhead's wrath when you spend money you shouldn't on
"toys".

> > Monitors, that's another good term for a class.

Interesting. I was thinking of using historical terms in new ways. Since
different powers/universes can use the same name for different concepts,
my cutters will probably equate with SDD's, My monitors will probably equate
with your SDC's, and my PT's will probably equate with your SDB's (IF I ever
design them).

Do you have a website, BTW?

2B^2

From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@y...>

Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 17:25:27 -0800 (PST)

Subject: Re: FT: Pre-read questions

> --- Brian Bilderback <bbilderback@hotmail.com> wrote:

> >You should see the assortment Don's working up for

I'm so NOT going to have that discussion.

> Do you have a website, BTW?

Is the bishop of Rome a heretic?

www.angelfire.com/va/basileus/Rhomaioi.html

Follow the links and you find stuff on all 3 games.

From: Laserlight <laserlight@q...>

Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 20:42:17 -0500

Subject: Re: FT: Pre-read questions

> --- Laserlight <laserlight@quixnet.net> wrote:

John A said:
> Actually, more than that. Considerably so.

I refer you to Oerjan's post of 1/3/01--you were probably enjoying the
cheerful *wheet* of bullets past your ears at that point, IIRC, so here's the
relevant bit:

" If you include all the FB1 warships
(the 57 main entries, not every sub-variant) as well as the 8 IF ships
above [similar to current IF ships], you get an average
[cost increase to build a corresponding ship with FTL]
of 13.6% (with extreme values 6.7% and 20%).
Averaging over the thousand or so FB1-tech ships I currently have
archived gives 13.1%. Or at least it gave 13.1% a couple months ago; I
haven't checked since early November :-/

A 2-3% cost difference is generally too small to have a noticable
impact; the initiative rolls tend to have a bigger impact than this (at least
for battles smaller than ~5000 pts per side). If you fight to the
last ship and/or count ships that FTL from the battle as "killed",
+15%
works about as well as +10% - the inaccuracy is drowned by the effects
of initiative rolls (and maneuvering, lucky/unlucky threshold rolls,
etc.).

If OTOH you score more points for killed/captured enemy ships than for
cripples which escape (cf. the "Striking colours" thread) then the
sub-light ships have a distinct disavantage: they can't withdraw into
hyperspace, so they tend to die (or surrender/be captured) more often
than FTL-capable ones. This lowers their value a bit further, pushing
the cost increase down closer to 10% than 15%."

From: Laserlight <laserlight@q...>

Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 20:47:19 -0500

Subject: Re: FT: Pre-read questions

From: Brian Bilderback <bbilderback@hotmail.com>

> You should see a redhead's wrath when you spend money you shouldn't

I found that when I spend $1000 on my wife, she's very forgiving about the $50
I spend on myself.

Note: on the survey we did a few months ago, the average gamer spent
about $700/year on lead.  Many spent $1000/year.  I was one of the two
lowest of those who responded, only about $350/year.

From: John Atkinson <johnmatkinson@y...>

Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 18:05:54 -0800 (PST)

Subject: Re: FT: Pre-read questions

Ladies, Gentlemen, and Misc.[1], I hate to depart after posting some of the
inflammatory stuff I have in the past couple of days, but I'm off to NTC at
Ft. Irwin (for those of who don't have a clue what I'm babbling about speak to
Don or any of the other 'Merican troops who served since the early 80s) for a
little while.  So to avoid approximately 4,000 e-mails
clogging my box I'm signing off the list. If you wish to respond to anything
I've said in the past couple days, feel free to cc: it to me and I'll get to
it as soon as I can.

From: Michael Brown <mwbrown@s...>

Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 21:48:13 -0800

Subject: RE: FT: Pre-read questions

Just to let you all know where john is going, take a look at a map of Southern
California. Find US Interstate 15 between San Bernardino and Las Vegas Nevada.
About the halfway spot is Barstow California. About 35 miles (60 km) north is
Fort Irwin. Notice that this is smack in the middle of the Mojave Desert.
There are NO trees. Only those that are stationed there see the inside of a
building. John is lucky, it will only be cold and windy (temp @ freezing at
night and @ 60 F in the middle of the day). My first visit (of many) was in
late July through early September. Daytime high of @120 F. Did I say there
were NO trees? Creosote bushes, alkali flats, rocks, sand, dust, 2 varieties
for rattlesnake, scorpions, sand, and more rocks. Oh, and no dial tone.

And we wonder why he gets cranky.

Michael Brown

[quoted original message omitted]

From: Roger Burton West <roger@f...>

Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 09:55:33 +0000

Subject: Re: FT: Pre-read questions

> On Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 12:03:24PM +1100, Beth.Fulton@csiro.au wrote:

> In that (OK

Also, I've been working out some numbers recently - FTL is a really neat
thing to have for getting around inside a star system. I'm assuming a stellar
hyperlimit at about 5AU and 1g per thrust point; it's worth jumping as soon as
you get outside that range, unless you're going to a planet that has its own
huge gravity well.

Doesn't matter if you don't have anything worth defending outside the
hyperlimit, of course - and this might well be the case, since the limit
is a pretty useful way of stopping ships from dropping out on top of you.

From: DAWGFACE47@w...

Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 09:50:38 -0600 (CST)

Subject: RE: FT: Pre-read questions

FORT IRWIN is a wondeful place to see in the rear view mirror as you depart
for some other place.......

did you forget the rats,   spiders, and the  gila  monsters or do they
not count in the roll call of unpleasant critters that you catalogged for us.

From: Michael Brown <mwbrown@s...>

Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 18:27:05 -0800

Subject: RE: FT: Pre-read questions

Oh, they count. Great place in August, NOT!

From: Beth Fulton <beth.fulton@m...>

Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 15:53:52 +1100

Subject: RE: FT: Pre-read questions

G'day,

> Did I say there were NO trees? Creosote bushes, alkali flats, rocks,
Oh, and
> no dial tone.

I guess we all react in our own ways then.... chnage the names of the crawlies
and you may have described large parts of Australia.... and you wonder why
we're also demented?;);)