[FT] orbital sighting

Assuming a colony planet with no air pollution and not much light pollution,
and a battle taking place in close orbit (eg under 1000km), and an observer
with Mk1 Eyeball, could he see:

-- a non-stealth ship around CA/BC size -- roughly 100-200m long, 30-60m
wide?

--flashes from nukes?

--clouds eg debris of a killed ship?

> At 1:10 PM -0500 1/5/04, laserlight@quixnet.net wrote:

Considering that the Space Shuttle can catch sunlight and be visible from our
surface, I'd expect a much larger craft to be visible as a dot. Weapons fire
if it had visibile effects would put on quite a show. I'm sure flashes from
Nukes would be visible.

> "laserlight@quixnet.net" wrote:

Yes, especially (or primarily?) just after sunset/before sunrise, much
like you can see satellites (e.g., the ISS, HST, others) orbiting today. Most
satellites don't reach a tenth of the size of a CA or BC you have fleshed out
above. The ships would be no problem in picking out (and
even shape-discernable in telescopes, possibly binoculars; people can
make out the shape of the ISS with considerable detail nowadays with a basic
telescope of 6" or so in diameter; friend of mine had video'd the ISS through
his 12.5" Dobsonian last year; a shakey image, as he was
hand-holding the digital camera and hand-tracking with the telescope,
but you can tell what the object is).

I don't know that the observer would be able to see the ship during the
daytime. Scattered light in the atmosphere would probably help mask its
presence. But at night, reflected light from the local star will give it away.

> --flashes from nukes?

Why not? Biiig flash. Definitely at night, anytime. Daytime it would probably
go unnoticed (ASSUMING that the general light levels are equivalent to that we
experience here on Earth). People have seen bright things in the daytime sky
before (flashes of sun glinting at
just the right angle off of a plane, really kick-ass meteoroid blazing
through the upper atmosphere), but in general most people are not looking up,
and so would likely miss any daytime blasts (unless close enough to cause
shadows). At night, most definitely I would
say (hell, fireballs - really kick-ass exploding meteors - can cast
shadows at night; I've seen a few during my years of observing - and
missed a few when I happened to be looking down and the ground lit up around
me)

> --clouds eg debris of a killed ship?

Pre-dawn and post-dusk you would see the reflected light from the local
sun off of the debris cloud. It would be significantly fainter than a whole
ship, but if one is very acquainted with the local night sky, it would be
noticeable. Larger pieces may be as bright as your average satellite nowadays;
those would be noticeable readily enough.

Mk

[quoted original message omitted]

> "K.H.Ranitzsch" wrote:

Oh yeah, eventually, and those'll light up nicely. I've seen a satellite
breaking up on re-entry once before (NOT the Columbia, mind you :-/ ).
Debris bits from a ship will quite likely be moving slower than meteors (given
the relative velocity of meteoroids vs the relative velocity of ships and
satellites) so inbound debris material will look different than your typical
'shooting star'. Move slower, twinkle more, steady brightness for a
[relatively] long while.

> Normal water cloud cover would have to be taken into account.
Depending on
> climate, season and local weather, they could have a significant

Well, I was taking it as a given that the observers in question
had clear skies. ;-)

Mk

> Normal water cloud cover would have to be taken into account.
Depending on
> climate, season and local weather, they could have a significant

> Well, I was taking it as a given that the observers in question

"They said on the news that we could see the battle! I've been standing here
in a storm for two hours, getting rain up my nose, and I can't see a dadburned
thing!"

> On Mon, Jan 05, 2004 at 03:11:12PM -0500, laserlight@quixnet.net wrote:

[Indy:]
> Well, I was taking it as a given that the observers in question

This is an SF gaming list, not fantasy... :-) (Says the bloke in London
with a 1600 foot overcast.)

> "They said on the news that we could see the battle! I've been standing

Oh, that's OK - the people with clear skies got terminal sunburn...

(Being fair, this is actually extremely unlikely. OTOH electromagnetic pulses
can be fun.)

> --flashes from nukes?

I've seen Jupiter with the naked eye in broad daylight at 9600 feet altitude
(WIRO observatory in Wyoming). I knew exactly where to look at the time, and
have not been able to repeat the experience, though. A nuclear blast at 1000
KM would probably be a visible flash in the blue
sky, but I don't know about 2-4 point hits with beams or torps. SM
explosions and Plasma bolts might be visible if you knew where the
battle was taking place, depending how much of a flash they make - are
SM's nuclear?.