[FT] JTLs Genre fighters. Incomplete.

7 posts ยท Jun 6 2001 to Jun 7 2001

From: John Leary <john_t_leary@y...>

Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 20:26:35 -0700 (PDT)

Subject: [FT] JTLs Genre fighters. Incomplete.

Greetings all, I have been thinking of doing a cross genre game, using FT, Bab
5, Startrek, and Starwars. To try to deal with the fighters in a way that is
(reasonably) consistent with the 'on screen'
results does require one to bend/fudge, and if
necessary mangle/break the FT rules to reach the
desired result.

(Note: I stated this some time ago and life has caught up with me. Not much
time for
games right now.   The star wars fighters
were numerically tested in the death star combat and worked out almost
perfectly. I did not work out point values yet.)

What follows are a collection of UNTESTED concepts designed to make the
combats 'come out right', fair has nothing to do with this effort. (Note:
Endurance is stated in FT2 terms, double stated number for FTFB.)

STARWARS:

Tie fighters - Non-FTL, lacks endurance, weapons.
The game effect: All squadrons are considered Green (turkey), and only throw 5
dice. All tie fighters only hit ANY target on a six, and only do one damage
reguardless of any other factors. Key: Green, 3 endurance, requires a 6 to hit

Tie interceptors - Non-FTL, Lacks range/less endurance
than tie fighters, improved number of weapons. The game effect: All squadrons
are considered green (turkey), and only throw 5 dice. All tie interceptors
only hit any unshielded fighter target on a 5 or a 6, and only do one damage
reguardless of any other factors. Interceptors require a 6 if attacking any
ship. Tie interceptors have 2 turns of endurance. Tie fighters are only
available in very limited numbers and only if a VIP is in the command ship.
Key: Green, 2 endurance, 5 or 6 vs unshielded fighter and 6 vs ship.

Tie bombers - Non-FTL, Lacks endurance, weapons.
The game effect: All squadrons are considered green (turkey), and only throw 5
dice. Tie bonbers shoot at fighters and ships per the normal rules,
I.E. they need a 6 to hit.   Bombing attacks are
made per submunition pack rules, three attack dice are carried per bomber and
are used one dice per turn in attack runs. Key: Green, 3 endurance, 6 to hit
fighters and
     3 x 1 die bombing runs w/submunition
     to hit rules

Naboo starfighter - Non-FTL, limited range/endurance,
weapons. All Naboo starfighters only hit any unshielded fighter target on a 5
or a 6, and only do one damage reguardless of any other factors. Naboo
starfighter require a 6 if attacking any ship, but carries a missile that does
(1D3) damage and hits using the submunition rules. Key: Normal, 3 endurance, 5
or 6 to hit fighters and 6 to hit ships, also has a 1D3 damage missile.

Trade Federation Droid fighters - Limited range
endurange, normal weapons The game effect: All squadrons are considered green
(turkey), and only throw 5 dice. Droid fighters are limited standard fighters,
I.E. a 6 does only 1 point of damage to fighters or ships. Key: Green, 3
endurance, a 6 does not cause 2 damage.

X-wing starfighter - FTL, long range, screened,
Heavy, Attack, heavy weapons.
The X-wing is a combination fighter; FTL, long
range, Heavy and attack ability. The game effect: All squadrons are considered
aces, and throw 7 dice.   All X wings are
Heavy/Long range/attack fighters with FTL
capability.   The missile attack is carried
out as a submunitions attack and each of the two missiles does 1D3 damage to
the target. The four large cannons do 2 points of hull damage to any ship
target that they hit The ability to 'Double shield' requires attacking
fighters to score 2 hits to kill each fighter. Key: Aces, 5 endurance, 2 1D3
missiles, 2 hull
     ship hits, 2 hits to kill the X-wing.

Y-wing -FTL, Standard, Screened, Heavy, Attack,
Ion weapons.
The Y-wing is a combination fighter; FTL,
Standard range, Heavy and attack ability. The game effect: All squadrons are
considered
aces, and throw 7 dice.   All Y wings are
Heavy/Standard range/attack fighters with FTL
capability.   The Ion cannon defence is used
to neutralize attacking fighters by removing the ability to attack (I.E.
Dice), before the
Y-wing is attacked, the Y-wing defender rolls
the Ion guns with normal to hit (screens count), each hit removes 1 attack
dice for that combat. The missile attack is carried out as a submunitions
attack and each of the two missiles does 1D3 damage to the target.
The Y-wing may fire 2 missiles per turn
for three turns. The ability to 'Double shield' requires attacking fighters to
score 2 hits to kill each fighter. Key: Aces, 3 endurance, 2 1D3 missiles per
turn,
     Ion defence, 2 hits to kill the Y-wing.

A-wing - An FTL capable standard fighter.

STARTREK:

Little information is currently available for the fighters, I suggest using
the standard FT types.

BATTLESTAR GALLICTIA

Colonial Viper - Treat ALL as aces, long range.

Cylon Raider - Treat this the same as a Tie fighter.

BABYLON 5:

E.A. Starfury - Non-FTL, Heavy, Standard,

E.A. Thunderbolt - Non-FTL, Heavy, Attack,
The missile attack is carried out as a submunitions attack and each of the two
missiles does 1D3 damage to the target. The Thunderbolt fires 2 missiles per
turn for three turns.

Mimbari Nail - Non-FTL, Fast, Interceptor, Attack,
Long range. The Nial fires first in any fighter combat, except against the
first ones which are resolved normally.
Warrior caste Sq. are Aces.   Priest caste Sq are
Standard.   Worker caste Sq. are Green (turkey).

Narn Frazi - Non-FTL, Standard, Long range.

Centari - Non-FTL, Standard, Fast.

Bye for now,

From: David Griffin <carbon_dragon@y...>

Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 04:58:00 -0700 (PDT)

Subject: Re: [FT] JTLs Genre fighters. Incomplete.

> --- John Leary <john_t_leary@yahoo.com> wrote:
...

Let me first mention one of my favorite sites:

http://www.homestead.com/star_ranger/starranger.html

and suggest you examine his Sci-Fi crossover battles
which do this already and have the rules all spec'd out (though I think the
Star Trek ships are somewhat shortchanged in terms of firepower).

Secondly, let me say that the Earthforce Sourcebook from the Babylon Project
roleplaying game (now out of print but probably available somewhere, maybe on
ebay) specs out B5 ships in Full Thrust terms.

Having said all that, I love these kinds of games so best of luck putting it
all together. I suspect in general the fighters could be spec'd out with
normal full thrust terms (heavy, attack, fast, etc.) and the above site will
probably help. I use Federation ships in our full thrust game, though my
designs are made for the standard full thrust universe not the ST genre (and
so they have PDS systems and different weapon loadouts). I'd be glad to share
these with you if you are interested.

From: Richard and Emily Bell <rlbell@s...>

Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 17:35:06 -0400

Subject: Re: [FT] JTLs Genre fighters. Incomplete.

> John Leary wrote:

> Greetings all,

[terrible aspersions against imperial fighters and pilots deleted]

You have made the terrible mistake of confusing the imperials inability to hit
and kill named characters with an inabilty to hit anything at all. If you
think back, you will realize that except for cute fuzzy
things, non-imperial units suffer mercifully quick deaths when they
encounter imperials; unless, they included major characters. The boarding of
Leia's ship, the assault on the Death Star (except Luke's one small, but
admittedly crucial part), the battle on the ice planet Hoth, the fight to
control the cloud city of Bespin, and the initial stages of the assault on the
second Death Star were all unmitigated ratfucks for the rebels; until, the
major characters manage to do something that pulled everyone's ass out of the
fire.

Proper modelling of Star Wars is as follows:

The rebel player is allowed to designate an pre-agreed number of units
as crewed by major characters. These units may not be destroyed, but do suffer
threshold checks, or run out of endurance, as appropriate. All

From: David Griffin <carbon_dragon@y...>

Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 14:46:37 -0700 (PDT)

Subject: Re: [FT] JTLs Genre fighters. Incomplete.

I would like to point out that the movies implied
that the INCOM X-Wing was a superior fighter to
the regular imperials at least, and probably superior to all but the "advanced
Darth Vader" tie fighter. So, that at least the rebels have
going for them. X-Wings have a navigator (droid),
a repair capability (that ties lack) and have an FTL drive. They also seem to
be more maneuverable when they're not setting up for an attack run.
I'm guessing that TIES are non-atmospheric as
well while we saw X-wings land in atmospheres.

However, the imperials aren't the Cylons (who seem to have to attack at a 3:1
margin before they are actually dangerous).

--- Richard and Emily Bell <rlbell@sympatico.ca>
wrote:
> John Leary wrote:

From: John Leary <john_t_leary@y...>

Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 16:21:08 -0700 (PDT)

Subject: Re: [FT] JTLs Genre fighters. Incomplete.

--- Richard and Emily Bell <rlbell@sympatico.ca>
wrote:

> > STARWARS:
XXX I used the death star as the guide; to make things come out right the
approx. 700 death star fighters were assigned 100 to each of the six arcs,
with 100 in reserve. The 32 rebel fighters were divided 9 to the death star
assault and the remainder providing cover to the assault force. The 23 rebel
covering fighters must destroy 94 imperial fighters leaving 6 to attack the
assault force. The was I presented the fighters allows this to happen, or be
reasonably close. XXX

> Proper modelling of Star Wars is as follows:
XXX I can only suggest that you try 100 empire aces in tie fighters vs 32
rebel fighters with six aces. (sixteen ace imperial sq. vs six rebel sq.) XXX

XXX The rebel player
> loses if only units with
I presume this is a typo and should read;...major characters 'DON'T' survive
the battle. XXX

Bye for now,

From: Richard and Emily Bell <rlbell@s...>

Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 22:18:45 -0400

Subject: Re: [FT] JTLs Genre fighters. Incomplete.

> John Leary wrote:

> --- Richard and Emily Bell <rlbell@sympatico.ca>

From: John Leary <john_t_leary@y...>

Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 20:21:13 -0700 (PDT)

Subject: Re: [FT] JTLs Genre fighters. Incomplete.

--- Richard and Emily Bell <rlbell@sympatico.ca>
wrote:

> > ...major characters 'DON'T' survive the battle.
unless, all of the fighter bays are taken out.
> [quoted text omitted]
XXX I would consider it a possibility under your correction of mistake that
the rebel could have a bay equipped ship at the edge of the battle area, and
since the X and Y wings are FTL equipped they can always win. If I were the
rebel, I would use long range fighters for my aces, 9 attacks and then
withdraw for the win.

> squadron of named torpedo fighter pilots flying from
Once the attack has been completed they are dead meat!

Bye for now,