I'm giving up. Steve's ships are vastly superior to anything I've ever
designed. Ever. I can count the number of times I've won against him, without
handicapping him with another player using different designs (mostly mine), on
1 hand (a typical human hand, that is, not some 12 fingered alien hand:)). In
fact, I think the human could have even lost a few fingers on that hand.
Well, I haven't tried the "cheesy" soap bubble carrier or
the long-weapon-range high-speed circle-the-battlefield
type of ship; I don't want to do that. But I may resort to the carrier method
as long as I have to fight Steve's battlewagons.
Here is an example of two ships that faced each other.... never mind. I don't
have the exact numbers of Steve's main ship and can't seem to get it right in
my spreadsheet. But it massed 154 (10 more than mine), included many Pulser
Batteries with most set for long
range and 2x class-1 Grasers.
He did have 2 escorts while my other ship was out of range, but the result was
so devastating that those other ships didn't matter.
Here's mine:
BB Isucc
mass 144, cost: (3-row hull) 634
hull: 43, armor 8, FTL, MD 4 (advanced) Superior sensor, 4 FC, 8 scatterguns
2 class-6 rail guns, 4 class-1 rail guns
Set up: I had some armor and hull damge, his BB had a little less armor hull
and damage; all this after about 10 turns of maneuver (I split my two ships to
go wide around and try to work to his rear, figuring he'd turn to one or the
other eventually).
On the turn of decision, Isucc executed a brilliant (but last) maneuver that
placed his entire force square in front of Isucc at range 7 mu (inches in this
case).
And, I won initiative. So I fired the 2x class-6 rail
guns at the BB and the 4x class-1 rail guns at one
of the escorts. I roll two 1s.....long pause as I get a crying towel, again. I
did damage the escort for 4.
His BB fires: Steve rolls about 20 beam dice. Double threshold result with 5
hull boxes left undamaged. We roll for threshold checks. Then he remembers the
two grasers. The two grasers fire with one getting a 1 hit for 5 damage.
But you want to know the real kicker? My 2x class-6 rail
guns, with both hitting for max damage (24), would have only given his BB one
threshold check (it would be close to a second...). Unless I got real lucky
knocking out weapons (on a 6) my ship was still pretty much dead, at least
mission killed. And this for two ships that only differ in mass of 10.
Yes, he had only MD 2 while I had MD 4, but it was so
one-sided that I'm exasperated about Full Thrust in general.
I don't know what to do any more.
Glen
Have you tried swapping ships/fleets with Steve? Might be an eye-opener
for your both...
The_Beast
G'day,
> Have you tried swapping ships/fleets with Steve? Might be an
We have had a few really fun games where all ships are dropped in a hat and
you play what you draw out. Another fun one if you have multiple
people playing is to have 1-3 ships each and then each turn who ever
rolled odds for initiative are on one side and evens on the other, as
you never know who's going to be with/against you it turns into a
madhouse and is a lot of fun.... "I have you lined up in my sights now....
Pity he's on your side then really isn't it?.... Oh is he? Drat
it!" ;)
> On 11 Jun 2004 at 10:22, bail9672@bellsouth.net wrote:
> Here is an example of two ships that faced each other.
A large number of pulsars set in a mix of L (most) and C (some) is a
good anti-Kra'Vak weapons fit. You needed fighters to force him to
use some pulsars in pds mode.
Was the game cinematic or vector? What were the fire arcs on his pulsars? In
vector human and phalon designs have an advantage over Kra'Vak in that they
can reduce the number of fire arcs and thus fit extra weapons.
> He did have 2 escorts while my other ship was out
Big K-guns are very much an all or nothing weapon. Yes they have a
high maximum damage, but they also have a high chance of doing no
damage at all. For 28 mass I would suggest that 3xK4+K2 or 5xK3+K2
would be better. They actually have a higher theoretical maximum damage but
more importantly they have a lower chance of doing no damage at all and less
vulnerable to being knocked out by thresholds.
Superior sensors? Why?
> Set up:
There's no point in splitting your ships unless you try to get both of them
into firing range at once. If your other ship (same or different design as the
one discussed here?) had landed in Steve's rear arc in the same turn that
Isucc landed in his front arc things may have gone differently.
> On the turn of decision, Isucc executed a brilliant
Ah, 1 inch too far away. If you'd been within 6mu you could have fired your
scatterguns as well. As there were no fighters or missiles in Steve's designs
they were wasted otherwise.
> And, I won initiative. So I fired the 2x class-6 rail
Why split your fire? Okay, with the dice rolls for the K-6s it made
no difference, but if they had hit the extra firepower from the K-1s
may have pushed him over that second threshold.
> I roll two 1s.....long pause as I get
How much actual damage? You say you had 'some damage' off your
initial 43 hull + 8 armour and this attack left you with 5 points of
hull. Looks like Steve rolled high. Doing 20+ points of damage with
20 beam dice is well above the norm.
> We
< rules lawyer > How generous of you. As the two of you had moved on to
rolling for thresholds Steve had missed his chance to fire his grasers.
< / rules lawyer >
> But you want to know the real kicker? My 2x class-6 rail
See above.
> Unless I got real lucky knocking out weapons
But he fired all his weapons whilst you didn't fire your scatterguns
and fired your K-1s at another target.
> Yes, he had only MD 2 while I had MD 4, but it was so
Looks like a combination of less than ideal ship design (those big k-
guns are a red herring), bad tactics (not concentrating your firepower, not
getting the scatterguns into range) and bad dice
rolls. Nothing anyone can do about the last. :-(
> His BB fires: Steve rolls about 20 beam dice. Double
Hmmmm, with Isucc having 43 hull in 3 rows, that gives it rows of
15/14/14,
and you said it had "some armor and hull damage" so to go down to 5 hull boxes
left, that means that ship took about 30 points of damage or more from 20 beam
dice....WOW. Steve must have had some great rolls to get that much damage. On
average, 20 beam dice would do 16 points of damage, and he did about twice
that. Don't let him use those dice again.
> But you want to know the real kicker? My 2x class-6 rail
OK, using the info from your other post, the BB Steve has 14 6arc pulsers for
a total of 56 mass. The BB Issuc has 8 Scatterguns, 4 K1 guns and 2 K6 guns,
for a total of 44 mass, 78.5% of the BB Steve. With the mass difference and
the lower thrust giving him more weapons.
Now the BB Steve fires all 56 mass of weapons at the BB Issuc as it doesn't
have any dedicated point defense weapons. BB Issuc on the other hand returns
fire with only the 2 K6 guns, 28 mass, because the Scatterguns are out of
range and the K1s are firing at another target.
BB Steve then rolls very well with TWICE the weapon mass. Yup, BB Issuc would
be toast after that exchange.
> and bad dice rolls. Nothing anyone can do about the last. :-(
Switch to the "inverted die rolls". :-)