This is the second of two surveys I'd like to do.
So, here's the second survey: what official fleets do you think are the
"best"? And why? Are there any official fleets, from either fleet book, that
really seem to be better than the others? Are there some that you just like
from an aesthetic sense?
Personally, I like the design of the ESU ships in the fleet book, but I've
never liked the figures aesthetically. I like the looks of the NSL ships,
though. The aliens intrigue me. The Kra'vak are so "common" as far as aliens
go, though, that I'm tempted to go for a Phalon fleet. Just my comments, let's
hear yours...
OK, since I have a lot of free time tonite:). I think that the ESU fleet has
to be the best (this is coming from someone who has yet to lay his hands on
the FB because KR is still most likely filling preorders:). I have several
fleets, and always seem to do very well with the ESU, although I've noticed
that fleet seems to have the edge in large engagements with capital ships,
whereas I think the NAC is best for smaller actions involving ships smaller
than BC size. I'll reserve judgement on the Kra'vak until I actually see FB2.
Mark
> Allan Goodall wrote:
> This is the second of two surveys I'd like to do.
> So, here's the second survey: what official fleets do you think
I have no special favor for any of the FB1 fleets and I don't really have a
feel yet for the FB2 fleets. If I were forced to pick a FB1 fleet...and
bearing in mind I play vector...I'd probably pick....hmmm...NSL or ESU, I
suppose. FSE would be last on my list, which is a shame because they are far
and away the most esthetically pleasing.
Looks: 1. FSE 2. KV
4. ESU, mostly 4. NSL tied with ESU 5. SV (with a really good paint job, maybe
black with a very restrained dark crimson highlighting, the whole thing
lacquered in glosscote). 6. IF (may move up when I figure out how I'm going to
paint them) 7. NAC
9. Phalon
I've left out UN because I've only seen a couple photos and those a while ago.
NAC is a great fleet for campaigns. It does not rely on expendable munitions.
It has fair protection and good speed. They take a jack of all trades approach
to ship design; few ships excel as any one task, but work fair for a multitude
of tasks). Fighter carriers tend to be specialized.
ESU is, IMHO the best fleet out. It relies on Beams (good range/damage
mix) for offense and screens for defense. Ships tend to have a higher
hull/mass
ratio. And like the NAC, they don't rely on expendable munitions. Fighter
carriers tend to split between mass for fighters and weapons.
NSL can be very powerful. They rely on armor for protection which (until FB2)
provided protection from all weapons. The big drawback is that they are slow.
Fighter carriers tend to split mass between fighters and weapons (but not as
much as the ESU).
FSE can be powerful if played right and the player gets lucky. This fleet
takes the most skill to play. Ships are more fragile than other fleets. Ships
are very fast, which helps some, but is generally not worth the cost (may have
changed with FB2 Phalon). FSE relies on expendable munitions, which REALLY
hurts in a campaign. Fighter carriers are specialized.
KV is tough! Their weapons are very dangerous and have the same range as
P-Torps. They use LOTS of hull, but no armor or screens. They can turn
quickly. EXTRA dangerous in a game using vector movement.
SV interesting to play. Very flexible, but fairly fragile. Their heavy weapons
use hull as ammo, so they damage themselves for a chance to do extra damage to
enemies. I have not played them enough yet to tell how tough they
are. I imagine "custom-built" SV may be tougher than the standard ones.
Ph look to be fun. With an area effect weapon, they can be dangerous. They
have a BIG drawback in the PDS area. They must use their main guns as PDS, so
may not use it for normal fire. If I were to attack them, I would use
fighters/missiles to draw PDS fire then hit hard with normal weapons.
Their
multilayer armor will help this fleet against the KV K-guns and
penetrating weapons.
---
Brian Bell bkb@beol.net <mailto:bkb@beol.net>
http://members.xoom.com/rlyehable/ft/
ICQ: 12848051 AIM: Rlyehable
---
[quoted original message omitted]
G'day again Allan,
I can't speak for Derek, though I personally like FSE (for the challenge) the
ESU were the ones that experience suggests perform the best under anyones
guidance. As for the alien races I think the Sa'Vasku are fast shaping up to
be my favorites, but Lachy would say Phalons, Phalons,
Phalons!!!!!!!! ;)
Cheers
Beth
Splitting up the questions:
> what official fleets do you think are the "best"? And why?
Assuming "best" means "most effective", then I'd have to say "it
depends..."
Assuming you play Cinematic not Vector: NSL have IMHO a slight but definite
advantage over other human fleets. They have a definite disadvantage vs
KraVak. ESU is the most flexible, yet suffers a bit from the "Jack of all
trades, master
of none" syndrome. I win about 3/4 of the time with them.
NAC is the second most flexible, far nastier in their forward arc than
elsewhere, but good all rounders. Particularly good vs ESU. FSE with their
fast speed is good vs KraVak, but missile tactics are difficult to use. In the
hands of a master, they work very well. Kra'Vak in cinematic have difficulties
vs SaVasku, also FSE due to the FSE's
all-round firing arcs and fast speed. It's very difficult to get either
in your forward arc. They get better with practice, but still are difficult to
use.
I'm still getting beaten 3/4 of the time with them, but my average is
slowly getting better. SaVasku require completely different tactics from
anyone else: you've gotta know when to zip in, know when to zip out, and never
get involved in a
head-to-head
fight except where you have local superiority. Putting the Gypsy Curse on an
enemy cruiser is a good tactic ( ie you hit them with 4 Leeches, then ignore
and avoid them till they evaporate). It even works with larger ships,
providing they're a bit damaged (like a core system taken out).
Phalons with their area-effect weapons have good but spotty anti-fighter
and
anti-missile defences, and have the ability to really hurt a fleet
that's too concentrated. They also can be really nasty at short range, if
they've tuned their weapons right. In fact, a Phalon Fleet is more like a
combination of Human fleets, and 2 Phalon Fleets even with the same ship
classes can have radically different "feel"s depending on the tuning of their
weapons. Some people locally seem to feel the Phalons are the best, but I have
my doubts.
> Are there any official fleets, from either fleet book, that
In general no, but there are special cases: NSL vs KraVak, Phalons vs Kra'Vak,
SaVasku vs KraVak for example.
> Are there some that you just like from an aesthetic sense?
The FSE no doubt, though their corvettes are a bit ugly. The larger Phalons
look good, but the smaller ones don't. The samller KraVak look good, the
bigger
Splitting up the questions:
> what official fleets do you think are the "best"? And why?
Assuming "best" means "most effective", then I'd have to say "it
depends..."
Assuming you play Cinematic not Vector: NSL have IMHO a slight but definite
advantage over other human fleets. They have a definite disadvantage vs
KraVak. ESU is the most flexible, yet suffers a bit from the "Jack of all
trades, master
of none" syndrome. I win about 3/4 of the time with them.
NAC is the second most flexible, far nastier in their forward arc than
elsewhere, but good all rounders. Particularly good vs ESU. FSE with their
fast speed is good vs KraVak, but missile tactics are difficult to use. In the
hands of a master, they work very well. Kra'Vak in cinematic have difficulties
vs SaVasku, also FSE due to the FSE's
all-round firing arcs and fast speed. It's very difficult to get either
in your forward arc. They get better with practice, but still are difficult to
use.
I'm still getting beaten 3/4 of the time with them, but my average is
slowly getting better. SaVasku require completely different tactics from
anyone else: you've gotta know when to zip in, know when to zip out, and never
get involved in a
head-to-head
fight except where you have local superiority. Putting the Gypsy Curse on an
enemy cruiser is a good tactic ( ie you hit them with 4 Leeches, then ignore
and avoid them till they evaporate). It even works with larger ships,
providing they're a bit damaged (like a core system taken out).
Phalons with their area-effect weapons have good but spotty anti-fighter
and
anti-missile defences, and have the ability to really hurt a fleet
that's too concentrated. They also can be really nasty at short range, if
they've tuned their weapons right. In fact, a Phalon Fleet is more like a
combination of Human fleets, and 2 Phalon Fleets even with the same ship
classes can have radically different "feel"s depending on the tuning of their
weapons. Some people locally seem to feel the Phalons are the best, but I have
my doubts.
> Are there any official fleets, from either fleet book, that
In general no, but there are special cases: NSL vs KraVak, Phalons vs Kra'Vak,
SaVasku vs KraVak for example.
> Are there some that you just like from an aesthetic sense?
The FSE no doubt, though their corvettes are a bit ugly. The larger Phalons
look good, but the smaller ones don't. The samller KraVak look good, the
bigger
Tough question. Esthetically, I like the FSE ships the best, closely followed
by the ESU. From a combat perspective I'd say the NSL is best because of their
heavy beam armament and dense defences, followed by the ESU, although I
haven't yet tried any of the FB2 races.
[quoted original message omitted]
I forgot to mention my aesthetic preferences in my response.
My favorite design is the ESU Nanuchka CT (original)
[http://www.geohex.com/vift203.htm]. It has a techno-shark-in-space look
that I very much appreciate. I would love a whole fleet range on this theme
<sigh>.
Second, I like asymertrical ship designs:
NAC Miyazaki FF [http://www.geohex.com/vift104.htm]
NAC Avalon BDN [http://www.geohex.com/vift111.htm]
(although, I dislike the boom-and-bridge concept)
KV Lu'Dak SC [http://www.geohex.com/vift402.htm]
Third, I like the Sa'Vasku (especially when mixed with ICE Silent Death Night
Brood ships). The mix is perfect (not too many bugs, not to many
crabs/spiders, not too many leaf/plants).
I like the FSE Ypres BC. The NAC Inflexible CVL is a good design that matches
its function. And I like the Komarov (but the wings need to be tilted up like
the Nanuchka "fins").
I like the NSL's no-nonsense style to ship design, but they are a little
thin in compairison to the rest of the fleets.
I like the Kra'Vak in the smaller ranges (SC to DH, less so CL to BB).
I also like the UN SDN-XL
[http://www.homestead.com/sfsfwft/files/latest.html], but do not care
for the smaller ships in the line.
OU ships are nice, but there needs to be a full line of them.
What I did not like:
NAC boom-and-bridge design. It has the same problem that the Star Trek
ships had: One hit and the boom should break (even if it is made of
Neutronium).
FSE are too much like Imperial Star Destroyers. The miniatures are excelent
and Jon did a good job of keepint the flavor of the design, while not copying
it. But that is still what I think of when I see them.
ESU. These look too "airplane-ish" to me. If they were listed as being
semi-atmosphericaly streamlined, it would be OK, but they are not. Wings
in space are fairly usless, unless you are planning to go into an atmosphere.
IC. The crecent matches the intended purpose, but I still think of the ships
as not-Centauri. I prefer that Jon make new designs and not not-copies
of other designs.
UNSC. Except for the SDNs, I don't care much for the rest of the fleet. They
seem to loose the 3D aspect of the SDN ship. Most of the GZG miniatures are
flattened (vertically or horizontally).
Kra'Vak. The larger ranges I find strange. Like the NSL, they suffer from the
problems of a boom design. In this case, it is a
boom-and-weapon/engine
design rather than a boom-and-bridge design. When I first saw the KV
designs
in MT, I thought not-Klingon. But the designs avoided that.
Phalon. <obvious>
What I would like to see:
Techno-shark-in-space fleet similar to the Nanuchka (original).
Asymertrical designs.
A soft-curve designed fleet (Japan?). Capture the ultra-modern style of
the
60s/70s.
A LLAR fleet, a PAU fleet, a IC fleet.
Modular freighters that would be in scale with the warships. We have a number
of freighter designs, but most of them are too small compaired to the
warships. We need some BULK freightors (mass 300+). Best would be a good
central core with lots of cargo "pods" to attach to it. Perhaps it should be
sold in 2 parts; main ship and a couple of cargo pods; and a blister of cargo
pods. The player could then decide how many pods to attach to the cargo
vessel.
Another non-organic technology sentient alien species. Preferably,
non-humanoid.
-----
Brian Bell bkb@beol.net
http://members.xoom.com/rlyehable/ft/
-----
> -----Original Message-----
[snip].
> Brian Bell wrote:
I probably ought to point out, for those of you that don't know, exactly who
did what: the NAC, ESU, FSE, NSL and KV ships were all designed and sculpted
by Paul Copeland of CMD, before we bought them out when Paul gave up due to
ill health. The SV and Phalons were done by Dave Garnham when he was working
for GZG, and the OU by Mike Broadbent (these are Eureka Miniatures minis made
under licence, not our own). More recently I've started doing the ship
sculpting myself, and the IF and UN stuff is my own (with more to come when I
get the time!!).
> ESU. These look too "airplane-ish" to me. If they were listed
Someone else mentioned that the ESU look good except for the two
super-heavies--I'd change my own response to fit that, the
Gorchkov and so forth look good but the SDN & CVA look like boats.
> IC. The crecent matches the intended purpose, but I still think
That's "Islamic Federation", not "Indonesian Commonwealth", you uncultured
heathen infidel dog and son of a camel..
> What I would like to see:
PAU buys from ESU and NAC (as they vascillate politically); LLAR I imagine
also buys ESU ships; IC might be a good candidate for a new line or they might
buy a mix of ships from several of the Big Four.
> Modular freighters that would be in scale with the warships. We
Preferably,
> non-humanoid.
Let's say that again, a little louder: NOT ORGANIC. Beams and struts and
geodesic framework (says he who doesn't have to design the molds). The feel
I'd like to get is a ship with no "skin", perhaps crossed with a feel of
"mechanical scorpion".
> ESU. These look too "airplane-ish" to me. If they were listed
> Someone else mentioned that the ESU look good except for the two
Remind me a bit of the Typhoon class submarines, which i guess they were
designed to look like.
[quoted original message omitted]
> So, here's the second survey: what official fleets do you think are the
I'd agree with previous opinions that ESU designs are generally quite good,
though I believe that ANY nation's ships can be good if you know how to take
advantage of the design.
ESU deisgns are just a bit easier to "exploit" for the average FT-er.
> Allan Goodall wrote:
> So, here's the second survey: what official fleets do you think are
"Best" as in "wins most often", or as in "most fun to play with"?
I rarely use the FB1 ships, but the FSE fit my style of fighting better than
the others. Some of their designs are... less than optimal, but that only
means it's more fun to figure out tactics which work for them
<g>
Whenever anyone in the local group uses the FB1 NAC designs, he loses. 'Nuff
said.
ESU and NSL are both good all-round fleets. These are IMO the best to
give to a newbie, but I can't say I find them very interesting to fly.
Of the alien races, I don't know... the Kra'Vak is probably the hardest to
learn to use well, but when they hit something that something usually blows up
pretty fast. The Phalon ships are very powerful for their Mass, but their
costs match their power. I usually feel horribly
outnumbered whenever I use a Phalon fleet :-/ And the Sa'Vasku...
they're just plain weird <g> None of these are really suited for beginners,
though.
> Are there some that you just like from an aesthetic sense?
UNSC (or rather what I can build of the UNSC bitz), and the IF ships. I'm
still waiting for Jon to make the IF cruiser models <g>
Later,
I really like the look of the NSL ships and the NAC ships. The others don't
really do a whole lot for me (though I do like the way the Jerez CH looks on
the tabletop).
And yes, I know the NSL ships are basically pigboats and are dead meat for
Oerjan-types, but htis doesn't take away from my liking them.
Rob
[quoted original message omitted]
Looks:
1. NSL
-and all the rest of the gzg fleets go here at the very bottom. I don't
really like any of the gzg stuff I have seen.
What companies produce starship/spaceship miniatures acceptable
(scale-wise) for FT?