> Robertson, Brendan wrote:
> As FT is abstract anyway, I usually abstract out the fighters to fit
and
> Laserlight wrote:
> Just say "A six-strength fighter group consists of 10 [or 20, or 30,
And
> Allan Goodall wrote:
> assume one TIE fighter in FT terms represents 2 "real" TIE fighters,
Reasonable approaches. However, at a certain point, approx. 2-3 SW
fighters per FT "fighter", smaller ships, like the Lambda Class Shuttle and
the Corellian Freighter (Millennium Falcon) have the same firepower
and staying power (hull/shields) to equate to 1 FT "fighter" (2-3 SW
fighters), thus dropping off the bottom of the FT ship scale. The more you
scale this up, the more small ships start to drop off the bottom
end. You very quickly get to where the Corellian Corvette/Blockade
Runner/Courier/Gunship drops off.
Additionally, once you have accounted for the troops, vehicles and interface
transport of the Assault Legion (even at 2x or 3x more than "standard" FT mass
rate to equal the scaling of the fighter groups), plus the weapons, you
quickly get a ship that is huge (in FT terms).
The same happens with a Cylon Base Ship, even if you count each 25 fighter
Phalanx as a FT fighter group (more than 4:1), there are still
300 fighters, so 12 phalanxes/fighter groups. And the
Baseship/Battlestar is not just a carrier, but also has significant
weapons and is a fast ship ("Fastest ship in the fleet"). Again, a really big
ship.
> Allan Goodall wrote:
> The Fleet Books give tonnage stats for the ships, but the FT rules are
Actually, I have never seen a dwt number about SW ships. Only linear
dimensions. And a wedge-shaped 1200m VSD or 1600m ISD is a lot more
than 800 TMF, like maybe 250,000 or 400,000.
I did this (what you suggest) with ST ships, re-scaling to 1 MASS =
1,000 quoted tons. This kept the capital ships, like the TOS & movie
Enterprise 's in the c. 200 TMF range (Federation & Ascension c.
250-300). However, because the ships are scaled 10x, I had to scale
down fighters by a lot so that they a) weren't too powerful and b) could
be fit in a ship in the appropriate numbers. It still meant that TNG
ships are off the scale, even at 10x scaling (Ambassador class Ent-C =
3.71 Mt = 3,700 ST TMF = 37,000 FB TMF).
Scaling B5 ships also required a reduction in the abilities of fighters,
as compared to, for example, Narn G'Quan / Centuari Primus = 300+ TMF
and Narn Bin'Tak / Centuari Octavian = c. 400 TMF.
> I've played around a little bit with my own background universe and I
In our group's home grown ships, the capital ships tend to be over 300 TMF,
with a big jump down to large escorts (heavy cruisers) at <150 TMF.
When you say "a dozen capital ships on a side" do you mean alone or "with
appropriate escorts"?
J
> --- Jared Hilal <jlhilal@yahoo.com> wrote:
Thats the beauty of it, isnt it?
I usually abstract out
> the fighters to fit the
That's true, although you could just as easily go in the opposite direction,
if you wanted. Decide how big a craft you want a fighter to represent, and
scale your cap ships to match. Of course, it's dependent on what kind of a
flavor you want.
> Reasonable approaches. However, at a certain point,
Not to mention the fact that if you scale too far in that direction, you also
have difficulty with the fact that freighters and Lambdas have hyperdrive, as
do
X-wings, while TIEs do not.
In my home-grown universe, this whole conversation has
led me to toy with a shift in the opposite direction. I make a couple of house
rules and assumptions about the size of ships that not in line with the normal
flavoring of the game (All of which will probably
change drastically when FB3 and/or DS3 come out some
day). I pose them here not to say that this is how FT SHOULD be, just to show
how it CAN BE used:
1. If it CAN be built as a cap ship, it MUST be. While I have no problem with
saying This FT rules
6-fighter flight is actually 2 fighters that are 3x
the normal size fighter, I will not allow
conglomerating multiple fighters into 1 uber-fighter
if its mass is great enough that you could build a small cap ship of the same
mass. IIRC, the smallest possible cap ship is in the 4 or 5 range (but my
books arent handy here at work, so YMMV).
2. A FT class 1 weapon is, in my universe, comparable in power to a class 5
weapon, and a FT PDS is comparable to a DS Superior PDS. I know, I know, it
plays all sorts of hell with what FT ranges and turns represent, but Im
working that out too. However, that doesnt mean automatically that 1 FT Mass
= 15 DS Capacity points. What it does mean is that the 1 would roughly
translate into a vehicle capable of carrying such a weapon (taking into
consideration the need for support structure, crew, etc). Since a mass 1 PDS
is 20 cap points, and a turreted class 5 takes 15, 1 mass in FT terms is
roughly equivalent to the mass of a class 3 or 4 vehicle. Going with the
middle ground, I therefore allow for taking a vehicles class and dividing by
3.5 to determine its mass, round to the tenths, do determind its mass as
deadweight cargo, and for fighters, simplify this to a chart derived
indirectly from the above ratio:
Fighter Class # Fighters # FT Fighters
1 4
1
2 2
1
3 1
1
4 1
1
5 1
1
6 1
2
7 1
2
3. Lightspeed fighters: Since Im not recreating SW,
its not necessary for me to allow for X-wing sized
hyperdrives. Therefore, in my universe, I PSB that there are two types of FTL
travel: Through a set of
jump gates, and using a self-generated jump field.
The self-jump fields use a special form of matter as
the generating medium and require a minimum critical mass. This mass increases
based on the mass of the ship, but cannot DECREASE below a fixed minimum. For
game purposes, this minimum is 20 capacity when building a fighter in DS (for
later use in campaigns). If building a fighter solely for FT, a light fighter
(1 FT Fighter > 1 actual fighter) is not FTL capable, a standard fighter (1FT
Fighter = 1 Actual Fighter) can be FTL capable at the cost of offensive
weapons, and a heavy fighter (1FT Fighter< 1 Actual Fighter) can be FTL
capable at the cost of 1 fighters worth of offensive capability.
> * SNIP * you quickly get a ship that is
* SNIP *
> The same happens with a Cylon Base Ship, *SNIP *
The way to prevent huge ships in my setting is more campaign related than PSB
related. My universe is far more balkanized that the Tuffleyverse, and there
are many major and minor powers, but few or no superpowers. This means that
really huge ships like CVs, BBs, and DNs tend to be very rare, with a power
being considered major if it has half a dozen of these spread over known
space.