Here's a first cut at a maneuver modification that makes scenarios with the
objective of defending a specific target more workable. In FT,
stationary or slow targets (like bases, freighters/liners, etc) are
easy prey if the primary objective of one player is just to take it out. You
can deal with it by simply not having that kind of scenario, or you can find a
way where allies can divert some of the attack to
other targets. The base calculation is a little Math-y (it involves a
fraction), but I wanted to avoid break points.
Eclisping / Ships Screening Ships
A ship may attempt to screen or eclipse another ship or base from incoming
direct fire.
Requirements: Eclipsing and Eclipsed ships must be within 3 MU. Eclipsing ship
must be closer (even marginally) to attacking ship than the Eclipsed ship.
Eclipsing and/or Eclipsed ship allocates 1 or more thrust at order
writing to Eclipsing (e.g. 1p1+Ec2). Eclipsed ship may not conduct
Extreme Maneuvers or other such.
Effects: Eclipsing ship blocks all or some incoming fire directed at the
Eclipsed ship, and all outgoing fire from Eclipsed ship in that arc and the
two adjacent arcs. Eclipsing ship has the arcs facing the Eclipsed ship
blocked. Fighters may ignore Eclipsing, but Eclispsing ship may use PDS vs.
fighters attacking Eclipsed ship as if it were the fighter target. Weapons
targeting Eclipsed ship divide (total) damage between the Eclipsing and
Eclipsed ships:
Base Damage Intercepted = [Hull+Armor (Eclipser)/Hull+Armor
(Eclipser+Eclipsed)] (round down) taken by Eclipsing ship and applied
normally.
Mods = +10 for each point of thrust dedicated to Eclipsing
-20 per clock-facing of heading difference
(i.e. -120 for head on)
-50 for Plasma Bolts or other area effect
weapons. The Eclipsing ship takes full damage from the blast, the% reflects
only the damage reduction to the Eclipsed ship due to "shadowing". If
Eclipsing ship is destroyed, any overkill (of intercepted damage) is aplied to
Eclipsed ship.
Missiles apply BDI percentage + mods when determining number of
missiles locking on. Salvo targeting roll (# of missiles that lock on)
is at +1 per Eclipsing ship.
Other: If using Eclipsing in a scenario, it is probably best to work out the
various BDI values for the ships you are likely to use for Eclipsing ahead of
time. Thrust allocated to Eclipsing does not have to be used.
Multiple ships may Eclipse any given ship. - A maximum of Eclipser per
arc of target ship. Effect of eclipsing is cumulative - determine
intercepted damage for each ship and apply. Ships within 3 MU of an enemy may
attempt to "block" outgoing fire of enemy ships by Eclipsing them directly.
This is much harder given the facing penalties. Blocking ships can block fire
only targeting other ships in the same arc as they are with respect to the
firing ship.
Scenarios that might become more fun with this system include:
Defend a base/dockyard from attack.
Convoy/shipping raids.
Any "Destroy the X" scenario where X is the flagship or some other key
hardware.
G'day Noam,
I like the basic idea (and I know one little boy who has been asking why you
can't do this for ages), but (there's always one of those darn it)....
> Weapons targeting Eclipsed ship divide (total) damage
Is there any simpler way of working this out? for instance (Off the top of my
head of it's probably $^@!), thinking of the escort, cruiser, capital
classification scheme...
Eclipsing Eclipsed Damage % down to shadowed ship
Escort Cruiser 10% Escort Capital 20%
Cruiser Escort 0%
Cruiser Capital 10%
Capital Cruiser or Escort 0%
The% are probably way off sorry, but it was more the framework I was asking
about - i.e. general rules of thumb possible or do we really have to go
the path of a formula?
Cheers
Perhaps something more like ST - Assume that shields or other projected
defenses extend a considerable amount into space - perhaps tens of kms.
The protecting ship adds it's defenses to the target ship - i.e. a
destroyer with shield 1 would add one shield to a cruiser that it's
protecting, still max 2, but then you get some redundancy and big ships, like
BB's can effectively shield smaller ships. This would provide another reason
to equip ships with shields, vapor shrouds etc.
You'd need some type of rule such as shields can only be extended 2
units away, so the shielding ship must be close to the ship/object being
protected.
You might then develop a line of "Aegis" shield cruisers equipped with Level 2
shields and ADS to the brim. Very little offensive power, but able to
interpose themselves to defend against beams and missiles.
--Binhan
> -----Original Message-----
<<SNIP>>
> Is there any simpler way of working this out? for instance
And Civilization's mighty Cylinder of Battle rose to take on the Black Fleet!
on 02.12.20 8:53 AM, B Lin at lin@rxkinetix.com scribbleth:
> You might then develop a line of "Aegis" shield cruisers equipped with
From: Beth.Fulton@csiro.au
> G'day Noam,
Hey Beth,
> I like the basic idea (and I know one little boy who has been asking
Always.
> Weapons targeting Eclipsed ship divide (total) damage
> weapons.....
I originally broke it down by mass: +25% if Eclipser was 2x Eclipsed,
+50% for 4x, -25% for 0.5x -50% for 0.25x, but that replaces the
equation with a lookup table. Granted it involves no math, but it does get
more complex if you want to avoid breakpoints, which I'd like to. The
classification scheme way of doing it leads to all the fuzziness of when a
heavy DD becomes a Light cruiser etc, and I still worry about breakpoints.
However, to keep things as simple as possible, then mass
would be the way to go, and the simple 4-part lookup table like above
should be fine.
OTOH, if we went back to the equation and replaced hull+armor with mass
it would also get much simpler: BDI = Mass of Eclipser / Total Mass of
Eclipser+Eclipsed.
> The % are probably way off sorry, but it was more the framework I was
Binhan talked about extending screens and Aegis systems. This is OK to a
point, but 1) not all ships have screens to extend, and 2), some weapons
ignore screens, so it's insufficient. The Aegis cruiser groups
described would be meat against a P-torp or K-gun armed fleet.
I do think that an Eclipsing ship with screens should be able to use them,
which adds some complexity to the system. And there's a general problem if
Eclipser and Eclipsed have different amount of screening. The way I'd solve it
would be: Roll all damage against screening ships as v. unscreened. Reduce
damage for any screened ship in the Eclipsing
arangement by 1/6 for screen 1 (round net damage up), and 1/4 for
screen 2.
> [quoted text omitted]
I did something similar, but far more simply...I like simple.
If an escort is assigned to a ship, write orders for the pair as though they
are a single vessel, and move them accordingly.
Whenever the defended ship is the target of incoming fire, the escort may
attempt to interpose itself between the two and take the fire itself.
In order to do so, the escort must roll less than or equal to its current
thrust
factor on 1d6 -- so if a ship has done a lot of maneuvering on a given
turn, it is going to have a more difficult time intercepting oncoming fire.
An escort can protect against any number of attacks, but only from a single
attacker in any given turn. Area effect weapons cannot be defended against.
G'day,
> In order to do so, the escort must roll less than or equal to
Umm I'm suffering from thick headedness today, but could you please explain
what you mean? Do you mean remaining unused thrust or just straight thrust
rating? I'm assuming you mean the former right or do Oerjan-ish thrust 8
ships always pass?
> An escort can protect against any number of attacks, but only
Do you mean SMs as well as PBs?
Thanks
G'day Noam,
> but it does get more complex if you want to avoid breakpoints...
Good point, another one of those rock and a hardplace decisions.
> OTOH, if we went back to the equation and replaced hull+armor
Still not something Lachy could cope with yet mid-battle unfortunately
(not with out waaaayyyy slowing things down at least).
Have a happy silly season
> At 10:52 AM 12/21/02 +1100, you wrote:
Me speak English good. Unused thrust, right. So a Thrust 6 ship that
accelerated this turn would need to roll a four or less.
And yes, I'd allow the Thrust 8 ship to always intercept successfully. Others
may differ, on this, but I find that the ships that are *that* manueverable
don't last too long anyway. I don't doubt that someone with munchkinly
tendencies could design an unarmed Thrust 8 ship with class three shields and
a ton of armor, use it as a big chunk of ablative armor, but I don't worry
about stuff like that.
Besides, I usually do all the designing for the games that I run.
> An escort can protect against any number of attacks, but only
Again; I'd allow it myself, but others may differ. I figure why not? Poor
defender usually has enough problems to deal with as it is.
From: "John Crimmins" <johncrim@voicenet.com>
> I did something similar, but far more simply...I like simple.
> Whenever the defended ship is the target of incoming fire, the escort
> In order to do so, the escort must roll less than or equal to its
> An escort can protect against any number of attacks, but only from a
> attacker in any given turn. Area effect weapons cannot be defended
I have to say I like this (and laserlight's addition). It is much simpler. But
should a thrust 6 FF be able to shield an SDN as effectively as a
cruiser?. And shouldn't a thrust 6 FF be able to _hide_ behind an SDN
much better than behind an FF?.
Maybe it should be a die roll vs. unused thrust of both ships, penalised or
aided by relative size.
G'day,
Thanks for the clarification.
Cheers