[FT] Demo and Tournament Games

4 posts ยท Aug 16 2000 to Oct 1 2000

From: Allan Goodall <agoodall@a...>

Date: 16 Aug 2000 10:42:04 -0700

Subject: [FT] Demo and Tournament Games

As promised, here are some comments about tournament and demo games based on
what I saw at GenCon.

Demo games:

My feeling is that demo games almost always last too long. There is no sense
of objective with them. Of course, the idea is to play the game and learn the
game and just have fun. The problem is that with Full Thrust the games can
take a long time with nothing much happening.

Case in point: the vector game I played. At one point all of the action was
down at one end of the table. However, due to the nature of the figure
placement I couldn't fire my ships without impacting opponent's ships that
could fire at one of our other fleets. The main fighting was on the other end
of the board, but we had to wait until that was all done before I could get a
chance to do anything.

So, here are some proposals.

Demo Game Objective: Usually the demo games I've seen consist of 4 players a
side, and the objective is to destroy the other side's fleet. In this variant,
every player gets the point total of a ship the destroy. Even if all they did
was fire the very last class 1 beam weapon for one point of damage that knocks
out some superdreadnought, they get full points for it. If you've ever played
the fun Avalon Hill card game "Naval War" you have the idea.

If a player is eliminated, he gets more ships! However, anything destroyed by
these new ships is only at half the point total. This keeps everyone in the
game, but still rewards the better player.

Demo Game Ships: Everyone wants to put a large capital ship in the fleet mix.
This, of course, means that the games take forever. I suggest 750 points,
mostly in escorts and cruisers. MAYBE a battlecruiser or battleship. Lots of
things that go "pop", but with enough of a mix to keep things interesting.
Maybe give everyone 1 or 2 squadrons of fighters for support, just to give
them a feel for the fighter rules.

I would also have ship records for the big ships available. Gives them
something to drool over.

Initiative: Initiative passes back and forth between two players in a regular
game. In our demo games, we had it pass back and forth between each side.
Instead, each player should get to shoot at something in order. Say side one
has players 1 and 3, and side two has players 2 and 4. Everyone rolls
initiative. Highest player goes first. Say that's player 1. Player 1 fires,
then player 2, then player 3, then player 4. If player 1 can't fire, too bad,
the next person to fire is player 2.

This gives everyone a chance to play equally. You won't ever have to wait
until everyone else is done before you get to fire all your ships.

Now, about tournaments...

Our double elimination tournament was a success, I believe. Certainly most
players seemed to prefer playing 2 games for the event instead of just one.
However, I did notice a couple of things.

We had 15 players participate, with Lew Stoneking bowing out to make the total
an even number. All players played 2 initial games. The point total for the
two initial games gave us our top 4 players. These top four players were then
seeded so that player 1 played player 4 and player 2 played 3. The two winners
of these games went on to compete for first place.

In order to get into the semi-final round, a player had to have a
combined score of over 3700 points. That is, the total point value of ships
and fighters
destroyed + the total point value of the player's own ships and fighters
left alive for both games had to be more than 3700 points. That wasn't a rule,
that's just how the totals shook out. If a player and an opponent did not
destroy any ships, they would get a score of 1500 per game. I believe the
lowest point total for someone who had won both games was 3600+ points.

What this means is that a player didn't have a chance to make it into the
final round if they lost their first game. It was theoretically possible that
everyone who won their first round game could lose their second round game,
except that with the random choice of competitors for the second round some
first round winners played other first round winners. This made it very
difficult to get into the finals if you had a bad first round.

I've been thinking about this, and I think I have a way of keeping the game
competitive for all. This is based on the fact that we had three prize levels
(first, second and third). It could also work for 2 levels.

Option 1: After the first the winners would be placed into the "championship"
side, and the losers would be placed into the "consolation" side. The
champions would then play off to find the top 4 players (or, in a smaller
tournament, top
2 players directly). The top four would get into the semi-finals with
the two winners of the semis playing for first and second place.

The consolation players would play to choose two "consolation finalists" who
would then play off for the third place prize.

This means that if you won your first round, you were in the running for 1st
or 2nd, but if you lost your first round you could still win 3rd place. Yes,
this does mean a player in the championship side could win both games and
still not get 3rd prize.

Option 2: Use the first game only to seed the players for the second game.
First plays last, etc. Then, top 4 with the second game score ONLY makes it to
the semi-finals. The problem: by definition, and our scoring system, the
first place player WILL play the last place player in the second elimination
round. Not exactly the best thing to do.

Option 3: First game used to place players in two groups like option 1. Group
1 has 25% to 40% of the players in Group 2. Two players from group 1 will make
the semi-finals, two from group 2. This means that the second game is
more important than the first, but the first group will dictate the ease with
which you get into the semis.

Of the three, I prefer the third option myself.

Comments welcomed as usual (as if I had any choice...). I'd also be interested
in hearing how others play.

From: Peter C <petrov_101@h...>

Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 17:58:42 GMT

Subject: Re: [FT] Demo and Tournament Games

> From: agoodall@canada.com
<snip>
> Demo games:

I've had good luck with the "Circle of Death" demo. Stole it from Star Fleet
Battles....

Each player gets a Cap Ship. Get the name of each player, mix up names and
hand them out. The name you get is your secret target. You can legally

fire at your target and the guy targeting you (but you don't know who that is
until he fires on you). Shoot at anyone else and you're eliminated.

Kill your target... then you get his target next... the circle of death
shrinks. Fast playing game.

Pete

From: Corey Burger <burgundavia@c...>

Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 13:50:32 -0700

Subject: Re: [FT] Demo and Tournament Games

My brother, myself and one of his friends played a good scenario with 2
destroyers and 1 frigate a piece. Vector. Very brutal. The game only lasted
four turns but managed to demo everything a big game has except fighters,
missiles.

From: Tom McCarthy <tmcarth@f...>

Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 08:51:29 -0400

Subject: Re: [FT] Demo and Tournament Games

If you've got the time, play Swiss-style.

In the first round, players are randomly matched. In subsequent rounds, the 1s
t plays2nd, 3rd plays 4th, etc. with the caveat no one plays the same opponent
twice. For 9 to 16 players, 4 rounds decides the winner. All players play 4
games.