On Sun, 25 Oct 1998 11:38:53 +1300 Andrew & Alex <Al.Bri@xtra.co.nz>
wrote:
> Has any one tried putting together a supercarrier with the same
Sort of. Just for the hell of it, I once did a large-scale design
(FT2 rather than FB) of the Battlestar Galactica with the Vipers
represented at a one-to-one ratio (i.e., 150 of 'em in 25 FGs) rather
than the smaller version that I did for the UFTWWWP. After I added weapons, it
massed out at about 500, and the points cost was something huge that I can't
remember (7000?). Never tried it in a game, because it seemed just too big to
be usable. The Cylon Base Star, which carries 300 fighters (!) would have been
even worse!
Then, on Sun, 25 Oct 1998 23:40:41 -0500 John Crimmins
> <johncrim@voicenet.com> wrote:
> I've begun some more tentative work on my FT campaign, and I have
Other than employing an engineer with a really bad accent, of course. <
Shades of "The Web and the Starship" -- never played that game, but it
sounded interesting, albeit rather long to play.
[Lots of interesting ideas re FTL snipped]
> So how do other people work FTL? I have a few more alien races to
This will depend on certain basic assumptions that underlie your universe. If
I've understood you correctly (bearing in mind that I know nothing about GW's
warpspace, and am quite happy to keep it that way), the FTL systems that you
have mentioned seem to effectively be
teleporters (as is the GZG T-K drive), i.e., the ship pops from one
location to another without traversing the intervening distance, rather than
having to travel from here to there a la Star Trek warp drive.
Other teleporter-type FTL methods from various SF sources include:
-- Telesthetic travel, from SPI's StarForce
-- Hyperspace jumps as described by Isaac Asimov
-- StarGates, as used in the first season of the Buck Rogers TV series
-- Phase shift, from the Dorsai books
All have similarities, and all have differences that could be exploited or
increased to give the various races their own unique characteristics.
Alternative methods of going FTL fall into one of two (or more, but I can only
think of two at present) categories: FTL in normal space, and FTL by means of
hyperspace. (Note that there will be a lot of duplication in terminology here,
which could be confusing.)
The first group, exemplified by ST warp drive, manages somehow to travel FTL
without leaving the universe (though they may wrap a bubble of "subspace" or
whatever around themselves), so that ships can and have to interact with
astronomical phenomena like stars, planets, dust
clouds, asteroids, etc. -- and, of course, each other, so FTL combat
becomes a possibility. Other such drive systems include:
-- the various drives (phase-shift, mass-relaxation, etc.) from the
Hooded Swan books
-- Inertialess travel, as described by "Doc" Smith in the Lensman books
The second group get around FTL by leaving this universe and travelling
in another space/dimension/whatever. They usually don't have to worry
about dealing with astronomical objects, although things like gravity wells
sometimes intrude and the other space may have its own hazards; whether or not
ships can interact in the other space is open to
question -- some can, some can't. Examples of this kind of drive
include:
-- Star Wars hyperspace travel
-- Babylon 5 hyperspace
-- Dillingham warp drive, from H. Beam Piper's "Space Viking"
-- "Outsider" Hyperdrive, from Larry Niven's Known Space series
And then there are hybrids. In a way, the Alderson Drive is a hybrid
drive (uses hyperspace to achieve a teleport-like jump), and it might
be argued that the T-K drive is, too. Anne McCaffrey has her brainships
travel in "hyper", which is a kind of otherspace drive, but they can
use Singularity points to make teleporter-style long-distance jumps.
And Pernese dragons teleport through _between_, an otherspace <g>.
So, the big question for your campaign is, how many of these kinds of FTL will
you allow? As I said, it's my impression that the drives that you have
included so far are teleporters, so you may want to restrict FTL to that kind
of movement for the campaign. Whatever you choose, it generally boils down to
what sort of equipment does a ship need to carry, and what, if anything, is
also needed (e.g., jumpgates of whatever kind) to go FTL? That's up to you.
Phil
> On Mon, 26 Oct 1998, Atcliffe, Phillip wrote:
> FTL by means of hyperspace. (Note that there will be a lot of
third group: instantaneous travel. alderson drives, TK drives, etc. unless
this was your zeroth group, i didn't quite get your taxonomy.
i think that the original hyperspace concept (pre being assimilated by sf,
back when it was just topologists rambling on) was that, our 3-space may
be embedded in a 4-space, and may not be 4-dimensionally flat. if so,
points which are far apart in our 3-space may be close or even in the
same
place in 4-space (eg if our 3-space folds back on itself). if this is
the case, if we go to a point which is zero distance from another in
4-space,
we may be able to travel to the remote point. the travel is not ftl in
4-space, it just appears to be in 3-space. travel between points nearby
in
hyperspace may or may not be possible - it would require travelling at
right-angles to reality. anyway, a 4-space is also called a hyperspace,
just as a 16-cornered figure with twenty equal edges and six cubic sides
is a hypercube.
is that right? how many sides *does* a hypercube have?
Tom whose brain is turning inside out trying to think 4d
> At 12:56 PM 10/26/98 -0500, you wrote:
> Then, on Sun, 25 Oct 1998 23:40:41 -0500 John Crimmins
> nothing about GW's warpspace, and am quite happy to keep it that way),
> than having to travel from here to there a la Star Trek warp drive.
GW warpsapce works kind of like B5 Hyperspace. But it tends to be much less
attractive. And a lot more expensive.
> -- Telesthetic travel, from SPI's StarForce
This is one that I am unfamiliar with. How does it work?
> -- Hyperspace jumps as described by Isaac Asimov
[Much Very Useful Snippage--thanks]
> So, the big question for your campaign is, how many of these kinds of
As matters currently stand, I have three Major races with FTL--Terrans,
Imperials, and the Hegemony (which uses biotech). The fourth, the Old Ones,
travels directly from world to world, not bothering with starships.
I know how the Terrans and Imperials get around--Gates and Warpspace,
respectively--but I have not yet settled on anything for the Hegemony.
Of the minor races, I have one (the Uruk) that does not have FTL, but travels
in massive fleets of rickety generation ships. They attack in quantity, rather
than with quality, and are not going to play a large part. I have another
three races to deal with, though. I'm giving one the Alderson drive, one the
standard Full Thrust jump drive, and the other is still undetermined. It's
largely going to be a flavor thing, as tech will be different from race to
race, but different kinds of FTL can have a mjor effect upon a campaign. If
you CAN jump your ships into planetary orbit, it will give you an advantage
over those who cannot.
> Thomas Anderson <thomas.anderson@university-college.oxford.ac.uk> wrote:
A hypercube has six cube faces. Imagine making a normal cube from paper. Six
squares arranged in a cross folded up through the third dimension form a cube.
Then six cubes arranged in a cross folded up through the fourth dimension form
a hyper cube.
> whose brain is turning inside out trying to think 4d
0D A point.
1D Move point to form a line.
2D Move line to form a plane.
3D Move plane to form a solid.
4D Move solid (eg through time) to form a hyper solid.
Alternatively, roll up three dimensions to form a point, then move the 3D
point to form a 4D line. Caution - requires godlike powers in reality.
5D Move 4D line to form a 5D plane.
6D Move 5D plane to form a 6D solid.
7D Roll up previous dimensions to form a point, then move the 6D
point to form a 7D line.
8D Move 7D line to form a 8D plane.
9D Move 8D plane to form a 9D solid.
and so on.
or:
Referencing a nine dimensional array in a computer language:
NineDimensionArray[a][b][c][d][e][f][g][h][i];
On Tue, 27 Oct 1998 14:31:18 +0000 (GMT) Thomas Anderson
> <thomas.anderson@university-college.oxford.ac.uk> wrote:
Quoting me:
> Then, on Sun, 25 Oct 1998 23:40:41 -0500 John Crimmins
> So how do other people work FTL? I have a few more alien races to
> Alternative methods of going FTL fall into one of two (or more, but
> third group: instantaneous travel. alderson drives, TK drives, etc.
unless this was your zeroth group, i didn't quite get your taxonomy.
It was. Those of John's methods that I recognised were what I called
"teleporters", i.e., instantaneous travel. _Other_ methods could be put
into two groups: normal space travel or "otherspace".
> Later, John wrote:
> GW warpspace works kind of like B5 Hyperspace. But it tends to be much
Hmmm... shades of "The Game of Rat and Dragon". Anyone for space combat with
the help of a friendly cat and large flares? Let's see someone write
pinlighting rules for FT.... <g>
Again quoting me:
> -- Telesthetic travel, from SPI's StarForce <<
> This is one that I am unfamiliar with. How does it work? <
Psionic teleportation, requiring specially-trained Telesthetics (all
women, BTW -- Redmond Simonson was poking fun at male gamers. In this
future history, women ran things and men got to be grunts) and AIs to create a
"discontinuity window" through which ships could pass. Ships could be helped
by StarGates, large space stations orbiting at the edge of a solar system as
combined launch pad and defence platform (all space combat was psionic,
involving either throwing the enemy out of
the system, or refusing to be thrown, thus stunning the would-be
throwers).
Safe "shift" range for a ship by itself was 5 LY, or 1 if shifting into space
occupied by an unfriendly StarGate. "Overshifts" could be attempted, but you
ran the risk of not going where you wanted to, and suffering for it. A
friendly ship at the other end could extend this to
10 LY, a helpful Gate at either end to 15, and a Gate-to-Gate transfer
was 20 LY.
Phil, who rather liked the Lady May. Come to think of it, my own cats might be
good at pinlighting
> > Alternative methods of going FTL fall into one of two (or more, but
There are a bit more ways than that.