Even though I haven't seen my Detecting cloaked vessel proposal pop in yet, I
have reworked them, and wish to present them herre for comment. I have not
play tested them as yet, but plan to do so on the 24th. Hope to have the rough
edges off of them by the list by then. So, without further comment, here are
Detecting Cloaked Vessels:
Cloaking functions as per the More Thrust Rules with the following change:
Ships are no longer required to declare a length of time in cloak. Instead,
follow the detection procedure:
FIRE PHASE: Just prior to firing all ships roll 1d6 to detect. The roll must
be less than the DETECTION VALUE for a successful detection.
DETECTION VALUE=Thrust used of cloaked vessel (so that a vessel that
accelerated by 2 and turned by 2 has a detection value of 4).
DETECTION VALUE MODIFIERS
-1 per thrust used by scanning vessel.
-1 per thrust used by the uncloaked ship using the most thrust.
*No Detection is possible through the aft arc of a ship using main thrust. *No
detection is possible if a Nova Gun effect is still in play.
If successful roll, immediately move the cloaked ship closest to the detecting
ship as per MT rules for uncloaking (it is still cloaked) to its current
position and place a DETECTED marker next to it.
Ships may fire dumb weapons at the DETECTED vessel, counting the range as
DOUBLE (or add 12", whichever is greater) the actual range. Dumb weapons are:
Beam Batteries, Pulse Torpedoes, Needle Beams, Submunition Packs, PDS,
K-guns, MKP Packs, Scatterguns, Stinger Nodes, Lance Pods, Leech Pods,
Spicules, and Pulser Batteries. Basically, if the weapon is guided, steered,
or in any other way is homing, it cannot be used.
FIRE CONTROL SOLUTION: Cloaked vessels may be fired at normally if a Fire
Control Solution can be achieved. In any turn that a cloaked vessel is
detected, and has been detected by more than one vessel for 2 of the last 3
consecutive turns, or 6 of the last 10 conecutive turns if detected only by a
single vessel, a Fire Control Solution is achieved on the cloaked target. In
this case all weapons, to include fighters, may attack the cloaked vessel.
Keeping track of the turns of detection is easily accomplished by using a pair
of different colored dice. Designate one dice as the COUNT dice, and the other
as the TURNS dice. The first time a cloaked vessel is detected, place each
dice near the DETECTED marked with 1's showing. Every phase in which
detections are normally attempted increment the TURNS dice by 1. If the
cloaked vessel is detected increment the COUNT dice by one. If the
TURNS dice is at its maximum value (3 for a multi-ship detect, 10 for a
single ship detect), then decrement the COUNT dice each turn the cloaked
vessel is not detected. If this would result in a value of zero, remove the
dice. If the COUNT dice is at its maximum value, do not increment it. The
TURNS dice is not changed once it reaches its maximum value. This sounds a lot
harder than it is!
ACTIVE SENSOR SWEEPS: These rules assume all detection is passive. If you are
willing to let cloaked vessles fire, or give them some other benefit while
cloaked then use this rule as well.
Ships may perform ACTIVE sensor scans for cloaked vessels. In this case, roll
a number of 1d6 equal to the number of cloaked vessels. A Fire Solution is
automatically achieved for the closest cloaked ship. Remove the lowest dice.
For the next closest vessel, if the lowest remaining dice is a 5 or less, then
a Fire Solution is achieved on the next closest cloaked vessel. Continue this
pattern (third ship needs a four or less on lowest dice) until a Fire Solution
is not gained. The remaining cloaked vessels remain hidden and are UNDETECTED
this turn. Because of the "noise" passive sensing is not possible on a turn in
which a vessel attempts active scanning. If more than one ship goes "active"
then roll a ship at a time for each scanning vessel. Note that a roll of SIX
always fails to find a cloaked ship. Also note that any cloaked vessel that a
Firing Solution is found on has now fullfilled 3 (or 10) of the counts
required to gain a Fire Solution and the dice (or whatever means is being
used) should be changed to so indicate. Players should declare how many and
which ships are actively scanning before rolling any dice. Players then roll
one ship at a time, alternating if more than one side is hunting. Ships
declared active, are active scanning, even if they found no cloaked vessels,
or all cloaked vessels were found before dice were rolled on their behalf.
Active scanning ships may be fired upon by cloaked vessels, found or not. Any
cloaked vessel not detected that fires is marked as detected.
If you do not wish to allow cloaked vessels to fire while cloaked, then
consider "jamming" space for 1d6 turns per ship that actively scanned. While
space is jammed, no passive detection is possible. The scientific explanation
could be background "noise" generated by all that energy beamed into space
conducting a search.
G'day George,
> Cloaking functions as per the More
So they don't have to preplot movement then?
> DETECTION VALUE MODIFIERS
So faster moving ships can detect cloaked ships better, why?
> -1 per thrust used by the uncloaked
Hey?
> If successful roll, immediately move
So are they plotting their movement on a sheet of paper, how do they tell
which is closest (OK I'm being picky but I juts know this is going to come
up).
> Ships may fire dumb weapons at the
I just always assumed that because you were designating a target system that
this counted as the equivalent of homing so to speak.
> FIRE CONTROL SOLUTION.....
Is there any other way you can do this????? Maybe if your detection roll
was <half that required (so if a 4 was needed and you rolled a 2 say). I'd
avoid book-keeping like the plague!
> This sounds a lot harder than it is!
It would want to be!;) Seriously if you can think up an easier way of handling
this...
> A Fire Solution is automatically achieved
Why?
> For the next closest vessel, if the
This seems like its awful easy to find at least a few targets per turn, but
the fact the ships can fire cloaked probably makes up for it. I'd be tempted
to make it harder for scanning ships to find cloaked ships and make it much
harder (say add a couple of range bands to the real distance to target) for
cloaked ships to fire.
> If you do not wish to allow cloaked vessels
For that ship or all ships???
I was playing devil's advocate a bit here, but I do think you need to ease
back on the bookkeeping aspect and penalise cloakers and scanners a bit more
in the active scanning stuff.
Cheers
Beth
> >Cloaking functions as per the More
I'm debating that. I like and don't like the idea.
> >DETECTION VALUE MODIFIERS
No, a -1 to teh detection value means that its harder to roll less than
that value. Sorry about the confusion. The dice roll is not being modified
here, the value to roll under is.
> > -1 per thrust used by the uncloaked
Example, if a visible ship anywhere on the board uses 5 thrust, then that is
a -5 to the detection value, if 5 thrust was the most thrust that anyone
visible on the board used. IN other words, whoever is using the most thust, is
broadcasting the most "noise" and thus drowning out the "noise" the scanning
ships are trying to hear.
> >If successful roll, immediately move
Trust.
> >Ships may fire dumb weapons at the
I'm not sure I follow you on this one. I was trying to say that weapons that
have to be guided to a target wouldn't work against a cloaked vessel.
Beams and stuff are bearing-type weapons. They are fired along a
specific bearing, which is about how much information one has about a cloaked
ship.
> >FIRE CONTROL SOLUTION.....
I'd
> avoid book-keeping like the plague!
The dice system was just a suggestion. Shoot, just write it down on a piece of
paper next to the detected cloaked ship. The idea of detections over time is
meant to simulate being able to get a solid firing solution from extended
tracking of the target. Its hard to get a good fix on something if you've only
seen it once, but if you get multiple bearings on it, and (even better) from
multiple sources, then you can triangulate an exact position. Since the
cloaking device is originally based on hunting submarines (at least the Trek
cloaking device was), I tried to model the rules for hunting
cloaked vessels on sub-hunting. The idea was you'd have to detect a
cloaked ship a bunch of times before you can shoot him without penalty.
> >A Fire Solution is automatically achieved
This is an optional part of the rule. I personally do not plan on using it.
> This seems like its awful easy to find at least a few targets per
The active scanning part is only for those who want to have a difference
between active and passive scanning. The idea of an active search is that you
will most of the time, find whatever is hidden, but whatever is hidden can now
see you very easily as well. At least, that's how it works, oversimplified, in
submarine warfare.
Thanks for the comments!
George
> -----Original Message-----
[Bri] If they do not pre-plot movement, then the player with cloaked
ships
should nto be able to view the table with non-cloaked ships. Cloaking
should
not be a one-way mirror.
[snip]
> > > -1 per thrust used by the uncloaked
[Bri] This should also work both ways. The cloaked ship should be able
to "hear" the fastest moving ship best, but the other ships be obscured by the
"noise". Obviously the cloaked ship is using passive sensors to locate
non-cloaked ships in the same manner as cloaked ships are using passive
sensors to locate the cloaked ship (but non-cloaked ships have the
option of using active sensors).
> >
[Bri] And verification. The cloaked player should have to divulge the
orders for the cloaked ship and plot it out turn by turn from the last known
location (or starting point) on the table when the cloaked ship is discovered.
If the ship remains cloaked, then place a marker for it at the last known
location.
> >
[Bri] While Needle Beams are not guided after firing, they DO require a
PRECISION lock-on to be effective (i.e. destroy a specified system).
Thus, they should be included with the "smart" or "guided" weapons for these
purposes. Or deny them the ability to knock out a specific system.
[snip]
> >
My comments above marked by [Bri].
You may also want to take a look at my Alternate Cloaking Rules to Simulate
Sumbarine Combat at http://www.ftsr.org/ft/techlibrary/cloak_uboat.html
---
> > > So they don't have to preplot movement then?
After Beth's and, now yours, and lots of thought about it, I agree.I'm going
to
chnge it to require the cloaked player to pre-plot his moves, though he
chooses how many moves to plot in advance. When his plots are used up, he
moves his ship as per the normal cloak rules. The current position is then
known,
thought the ship still remains cloaked.
This also solves the who's closest problem, since detections, could be done
based on table position of the cloaked vessel. Not 100% realistic, but I think
it works well.
> [snip]
the
> > scanning ships are trying to hear.
I agree, but I'm not really sure its an issue, espeically if using pre-
plotting, UNLESS cloaked ships are allowed to fire while cloaked. I'm assuming
they are not, unless the ACTIVE SENSORS option of these rules is also used.
> [Bri] And verification. The cloaked player should have to divulge the
Exactly! Well said!
> [Bri] While Needle Beams are not guided after firing, they DO require
Thus,
> they should be included with the "smart" or "guided" weapons for these
Good point! How about they lose the ability to knock out a specific system,
but can still do hull damage as per the normal rules?
> My comments above marked by [Bri].
I've read them, but I think I'm going to go back and read again. My first
impression was they were a bit more involved than I really wanted, so I was
trying to come up with something that "felt" right, but was simpler. I want to
give them another pass though, and see if there isn't anything I could steal,
or if nothing else, see if my first impression just wasn't a bit mistaken, and
use what is there.
Thanks!