In trying to build a minor power, it was fairly easy to come up with the
number of worlds and the overall population. I thought that size of the
military could be derived from this, but I need a basis for comparison. If I
can estimate what percentage of different national populations belong in the
different divisions (abstracting everything into Space,
Ground, Reserves and Merchant/Guard), then I could determine available
crewpeople and therefore how many ships I should have in my fleet.
Infrastructure also - I know that for every Sailor on a ship there are X
personnel that never see the water.
I figure it would be pretty foolish to claim to have a fleet that would
require 2/3 of my population as infrastructure, or a population that
could only support a cruiser and some frigates.
Does anyone have a simplistic breakdown of current
populations/militaries? I'm _most_ interested only for fleets, but would
like to make sure I was balanced with ground/reserves, etc. For instance
- Indy - any estimate for the population of the NAC?
> Does anyone have a simplistic breakdown of current
I think 1% of the population would be the upper limit for the size of the
military in peace time. Perhaps 0.1% to 0.3% would be a good limit for peace
time. Of that total, perhaps they are evenly divided between space navy, blue
water navy, ground forces and air forces.
> I think 1% of the population would be the upper limit for the size of
Rather depends on:
1. what you define as "military"--reservists? Russian style reservists?
2. where you are--a balkanized planet will have a lot more footsloggers
than, say, the Alarishi Empire, which has exactly one "brigade" plus lots of
marines.
I am reasonably sure Jim Dunnigan's book How to Make War has national armies
listed with total manpower, and it should be a relatively simple task
(tedious, but simple) to compare these with total populations,
> Andrew & Alex wrote:
Active Duty personell only, reserves may triple or quadruple these figures,
depending on country. Figures from Encyclopedia
Brittanica--they list active duty personell, and total population.
Extremes:
Iceland has .0485% of it's population in it's military. (130-man Coast
Guard) North Korea has 5.448% of it's population in it's military.
Nations of interest to list members: Israel: 3.19% US:.559% UK:.406% Ireland:
.366% Sweden:.724% Federal Republic of Germany:.440%
The record holder was Rome during the Punic Wars, which at one point had
10% of it's free population under arms. This is about the max--of the
population, approx half will be disqualified by age or disability. The rest
will be needed to run your economy.
> Laserlight wrote:
> 2. where you are--a balkanized planet will have a lot more
Depends a lot on what your military challenge is--invading the Alarishi
Empire would be 100% naval actions and (effectively) boarding actions in 0g
against relatively small planets. Hence it makes sense to have naval vessels,
small security forces scattered among the planetoids, and
marine forces for counter-attacking any captured habitats. Right?
Invading the New Roman Empire (to pick an example utterly at random) is more
complex exercise, assuming you want the real estate for more than slag. You
gotta knock out the fleet, then we have colonized asteroid belts (no Alarishi
habitats in the Aegean Pelagos, thank you.;), colonized moons, and inhabited
planets. Thus we need fleets, marines, interface fighters, atmospheric
fighters, planetary defenses, and ground
troops out the yin-yang. The idea being that while you're fighting the
thematic troops, militia, etc., the Tagmatic Kataphracts are coming.
We've got the strategic depth--a one-planet colony might not, and decide
to go for the all-or-nothing strategy of nothing but ships.
I said:
[Your military size and mix depends on]
> 2. where you are--a balkanized planet will have a lot more
John said:
> Depends a lot on what your military challenge is--invading the Alarishi
Pretty much. The Alarishi Empire focuses on the Fleet for several reasons: 1)
Given that the AE has lots of little chunks of real estate scattered all over,
there's not much point to having a base here, a base there, to try to
defend with--they would just be expenses which the invader could easily
avoid. Visniy Alarish itself is an exception. 2) Some asteroids have pacifist
habitants, and it isn't reasonable to
expect the Poor Claires, for example, to man--or nun--defense
installations. This does not apply across the board, of course, and some
sovereignties are armed to the teeth, ranging from the Knights Templar through
Han Bank down to Jack Old Ron, undisputed ruler and sole occupant of a 90
meter rock bearing 2 PDS and a Class 3 beam. 3) The Empire has a permanent
manpower shortage, and a battlecruiser is generally a better force multiplier
for a 100 crew than a couple of platoons would be.
4) I'd rather play FT/FB than DS2.
> Laserlight wrote:
> Pretty much. The Alarishi Empire focuses on the Fleet for several
Right...
> 2) Some asteroids have pacifist habitants, and it isn't reasonable to
I like his planet. Good set-up. Make note not to bother him. And I'm
still salivating over the chance to propose the Templar ground forces after
I'm done with everything else...:) So let me see, that's 1)Finish New
Jordan[1], 2)Do New Israel, 3)Grand Company (bunch of
Spanish-speaking FSE dregs), and 4)Templars. I won't be bored. . .
Anyone who wants to help/have input, please contact!
> 3) The Empire has a permanent manpower shortage, and a battlecruiser
Well, of course! And that's what it's all about--find what you like,
and then make up your background to make it work.
> I like his planet. Good set-up. Make note not to bother him. And I'm
Power armor, tanks, mobile artillery for the brethren. Confreres and mercs
provide regular infantry plus light and medium tanks. Five man teams, five
teams to a platoon. Generally a battalion has 2 armor + 2 infantry + 1
support (arty/air/engineer) company. I don't know enough about DS2 to
write their units up beyond that point. Aim for decisive engagements.
> after I'm done with everything else. . . :) So let me see, that's
Not Catalans, by any chance?
> Laserlight wrote:
> >after I'm done with everything else. . . :) So let me see, that's
*whistle* Let's just say the NRE unceremoniously had them deported from Hellas
and informed them that if the NRE ever found any of it's members in their
territory again, they would be summarily executed. And that the high command
of this unit must be modelled as a debating committe if it's placed on the
board.:)
----Original Message Follows----
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 19:49:50 -0500
From: "John M. Atkinson" <john.m.atkinson@erols.com>
To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
Subject: Re: [FT and (!!) SG & DS] Population and military
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
> Laserlight wrote:
> 2. where you are--a balkanized planet will have a lot more
=====================================
New Confederate States: Estimate of population in military (c. 2180)
The total population of the NCS as of the 2180 census was slightly more than
400 million, with 300 million on Dixie, another 90 million on the two colony
worlds (Alabama and Kentucky), and the remainder scattered among some dozen
systems in outposts, military bases, commercial operations, and a fair number
still in Sol system, currently mining volatiles in the Kuiper Belt. The total
number of active personnel is approximately 0.25%, or 2 million personnel.
Approximately
three-fourths of that, 1.5 million, form the ground forces, which
includes wet navy, army, air, and interface forces. The remainder, 500,000,
are the space forces and marines. There is a large reserve force, some 5
million, though the large majority of that is Army along with a large
contingent of merchant vessels and personnel for use as
auxiliaries and transport in war-time.
***
New Confederate States: Estimate of population in military (c. 2180)
The total population of the NCS as of the 2180 census was slightly more than
400 million, with 300 million on Dixie, another 90 million on the two colony
worlds (Alabama and Kentucky), and the remainder scattered among some dozen
systems in outposts, military bases, commercial operations, and a fair number
still in Sol system, currently mining volatiles in the Kuiper Belt.
***
Mein Gott im himmel! Tribes of Crane, deja vu, all over again!
The_Beast
----Original Message Follows----
From: devans@uneb.edu
To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:39:23 -0600
Subject: Re: [FT and (!!) SG & DS] Population and military
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
***
Mein Gott im himmel! Tribes of Crane, deja vu, all over again!
The_Beast
> jim clem wrote:
> The total population of the NCS as of the 2180 census was slightly
Canon note: 160 million is the most heavily populated human planet outside of
the Sol system.
----Original Message Follows----
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 11:01:21 -0500
From: "John M. Atkinson" <john.m.atkinson@erols.com>
To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
Subject: Re: [FT and (!!) SG & DS] Population and military
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
> jim clem wrote:
Canon note: 160 million is the most heavily populated human planet outside of
the Sol system.
John M. Atkinson
===========================================
Hmmmm, perhaps I should alter my figures a bit. Ok, say,
Dixie: 100 million (we Southerners are a prolific lot) Kentucky: 25 million
Alabama: 30 million Outposts: 20 million (total of about 60 different sites,
scattered all over. These tend to be in nice quiet out of the way places)
That still allows the NCS military at about 2 million (slightly over 1 percent
of total population, big military tradition here)
How's that?
***
***
Mein Gott im himmel! Tribes of Crane, deja vu, all over again!
The_Beast
----Original Message Follows----
From: devans@uneb.edu
To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 12:13:54 -0600
Subject: Re: [FT and (!!) SG & DS] Population and military
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
***
***
Mein Gott im himmel! Tribes of Crane, deja vu, all over again!
The_Beast
=================
I'm not familiar with that reference, please enlighten me.
***
Sorry, but it does feed into some nasty stereotypes of southeastern US family
sizes.
Evil spawn of NCS bantered to my banter:
***
Sorry, but it does feed into some nasty stereotypes of southeastern US family
sizes.
----Original Message Follows----
From: devans@uneb.edu
To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:37:53 -0600
Subject: Re: [FT and (!!) SG & DS] Population and military
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
Evil spawn of NCS bantered to my banter:
***
Sorry, but it does feed into some nasty stereotypes of southeastern US family
sizes.
========================
<sly grin>
Wellll, what can I say, we do tend to be a bit, ummm, productive 'round here,
only got two so far m'self.
</sly grin>
***
Stopped at one, myself, but as a good picky Virgo, as well as being an
industrious US heartlander, I always keep practicing.