Noam will provide a lot more detail on this, but I'm the one who's now a
rapidly expanding ball of plasma so I figured I'd start.
An Islamic Federation raider group was closing on a New Israeli convoy
when a NI Hunter-Killer group hove into range.
--Forces--
IF: 2 Ifrit heavy cruisers (mass 70), 2 Qaws SMR cruisers (mass 60),
one Saber Beam-2 cruiser, one Mameluke DDH. Points on table 1200 or
so, no ships had FTL drives. Start position about 20/70, heading 4,
speed 12
NI Convoy: 5 freighters, 3 corvettes, 3 "missile bait" escorts (about
250 points, not counting freighters), starting about 60/50, heading 3
NI HK: 1 BB, 2 CA, 2 mini-carriers, 4 fighter squadrons, plus about 10
more "missile bait" escorts. (about 1600 points), starting about
10/10, heading 2, speed 16
I closed on the convoy to make it look as if I was going to attack it and
ignore the warships. Noam launched his fighters and also continued closing on
the convoy to defend it.
I tried a couple of SMR-ER shot, hoping that he wasn't going to
expect the ER part. My beam-armed ships turned into him, with the
intent to mug his battleship; my DDH hung off my left flank to deal with the
convoy corvettes, and the missile cruisers kept out of the way. Noam also
turned to face me. My missiles vaporized one of his "missile bait" escorts,
and my PDS chopped away at his fighters. We exchanged beam fire. I realized at
this point that my missile cruisers were going to be high on the target list
next time, so I launched all my missiles even though I didn't have much hope
of killing more than those banzai
jammers. Fortunately I guessed right on one of the mini-carriers, and
it exploded. Meanwhile my PDS gunners came off the better in an
exchange with fighters--Saint Teske must have been watching over me,
and Commander Kochte was serving both with the NI torpedo firecon, and
later with the NI fighters. Beam fire happened some more.
Out of SMR's, my main punch was gone and I was down to 1 CH, 1 CL and 1 DDH
against 2 CE and 1 injured BB. Prudence dictated that I break contact. The NI
fighters swarmed around my DDH and wished, very
briefly, that they hadn't. My DDH blew up moments later to the
avenging beams of the BB. My surviving ships accelerated away and escaped.
Result: NI victory, more expensive than he'd hoped--that was
mainly due to my incredible luck with PDS fire, plus his leaving his
mini-carriers open to a cheap shot from my SMRs. My squadron had to
have effective SMR shots to win, and Noam's use of banzai jammers denied me
the opportunity. He happened to bring the right mix of ships, and I didn't.
Had I brought a MT Missile arsenal or a heavy carrier to the party, things
might have gone differently.
--Chris DeBoe
Quixtar IBO#706882
http://www.quixtar.com
> Laserlight wrote:
> Noam will provide a lot more detail on this, but I'm the one who's
Hm... all in all about 3:2 odds in the NI's favour, points-wise.
Sub-light ships are more powerful ton for ton than FTL ones, but not
*that* much :-/ Did you have victory conditions concerning the fate of
the convoy too?
Later,
Oerjan muttered:
> Hm... all in all about 3:2 odds in the NI's favour, points-wise.
No specific victory conditions. I'd been assuming that I should add
+25% to the IF total to account for being non-FTL.
It's kind of tough to model a real raid, until we manage an operational scale
game. I'm working on that. Normally an IF force would be something like 700
points, and a NI hunter group should easily quash it. If they can catch it,
that is.
> Laserlight wrote:
> Oerjan muttered:
<g>
> >Hm... all in all about 3:2 odds in the NI's favour, points-wise.
According to the numbers you and Noam posted, it looked closer to +50%
to the cost of the IF (~1200 vs ~1750 IIRC).
Sure, the HK group alone was only about 20-25% stronger than the
raiders, but the convoy escorts got involved in the battle as well...
Later,
> From Oerjan:
> According to the numbers you and Noam posted, it looked closer to
Depends on the calculation? By now I've seen adjustments from +10%-25%
for
converting non-FTL ships to FTL equivalent, evening things up a tad
(1320-1500).
In addition, 144 NPV of the NI ships were 8 unarmed, unmanned scouts (the
other 5 had a single submunition packs) - utterly useless against
anything but SMs.
> Sure, the HK group alone was only about 20-25% stronger than the
If you call two missiles and a submunition (that all missed) and 1 hit of 3
beam dice "involved" ;-).
On the whole I agree that NI had the advantage in head to head. Again, the AI
scouts were exactly the right thing to bring against SM armed ships.
The real question in a raid type scenario, is how much that matters. I've run
some simplified sims of the same raid scenario where the IF ignores the
HK group and attacks the freighters singlemindedly. Anywhere from 2-4
freighters could have been destroyed, with the IF escaping with at least one
missile ship and up to half of its beamships (more of both if the die rolls
were the same as those in the actual game we played). Depending on the larger
context, such a raid might be considered an overall victory for the IF.
> Noam wrote:
> > According to the numbers you and Noam posted, it looked closer to >
What depends? IIRC you claimed the HK group to be
fifteenhundred-something pts and the escort group to be
twohundred-something; seventeen-hundred-something *is* closer to 50%
more than 1200 (which Laserlight claimed as a rough IF size force) than
it is to 25% :-/
> By now I've seen adjustments from +10%-
+10-15% should be close.
> In addition, 144 NPV of the NI ships were 8 unarmed, unmanned scouts
Which, as you probably knew prior to the battle <g>, is one of the IF's main
weapons. Defences specifically tailored against your enemy must
IMO be counted into the force total :-/
> > Sure, the HK group alone was only about 20-25% stronger than the
They also got shot at (IIRC one was destroyed and at least one was
badly damaged), which definitely counts as "involved" - they absorbed
damage which otherwise would have hit the HK ships. Soaking up damage is just
as important as inflicting damage on the enemy.
> The real question in a raid type scenario, is how much that matters.
Yep. But that depends entirely on the scenario set-up - ie, whether or
not the HK group is close enough to intervene effectively. In this battle they
were.
Best wishes,
> By now I've seen adjustments from +10%-
+10-15% should be close.
That makes it less balanced than I would have liked, and the NI victory more
marginal. In terms of total NPV in that case, the scenario weally was a wash.
> In addition, 144 NPV of the NI ships were 8 unarmed, unmanned scouts
> Which, as you probably knew prior to the battle <g>, is one of the
I guessed. Laserlight's IF fleet has quite the variety, but I suspected and
hoped he'd lean toward SMs. Certainly the scouts should be counted.
> Yep. But that depends entirely on the scenario set-up - ie, whether or
Lesson for any raid scenario setup. Time to intercept is crucial to both sides
and can determine whether the main objective of either opponenet is
achievable.
> Noam wrote:
> >> By now I've seen adjustments from +10%-
Well, yes. The +10-15% is for a straight fleet battle, which is what
Laserlight turned the scenario into by attacking the HK group :-/
Later,
> Noam wrote:
Oerjan (which, for you newbies, is more-or-less pronounced URyan)
quoth:
> Well, yes. The +10-15% is for a straight fleet battle, which is what
But sometimes, especially in campaign terms, it's better to take out all those
transports and take the casualties. If you know they have high value cargo on
board (munitions etc) wouldnt you rather lose a few destroyers than have their
main battleline reprovisioned?
Neath Southern Skies - http://users.mcmedia.com.au/~denian/
[mkw] Admiral Peter Rollins; Task Force Zulu
> -----Original Message-----
> Oerjan (which, for you newbies, is more-or-less pronounced URyan)
> But sometimes, especially in campaign terms, it's better to take out
This assumes that you have information as to what cargo the ships have. We
were playing a scenario where the premise was "An IF amir launches as raid on
NI shipping to gain prestige and improve his
position vis-a-vis other IF amirs and the Sultan."
I'd like to have a campaign game, but the IF would require at least 3
(mutually hostile) players.