Hi all,
Just a quick report on our FT game from last night.
Battle conditions:
MU = inches Cinematic movement floating table (8'x5') Meeting engagement
approximately 1500 pts per side (+/- 10%)
Not using fighter morale rules
Force composition:
NAC
1 Inflexible light carrier 4 attack squadrons 1 Victoria Battleship 5
Ticonderoga Destroyers
ESU
1 Tsiolkovsky light carrier 1 Interceptor
2 Standard
1 Heavy
1 Manchuria Battlecrusier 2 Voroshilev Heavy Cruisers 1 Novgrod Frigate
Rational:
This was a quick weeknight game so we limited it to 1500pts each. The only
information we know before the game is the nationality of the opposing force,
so it came as quite a surprise that we had both chosen a light carrier force!
(Neither of us have used fighters much)
Initial deployment:
Both forces set up in the middle of the short side of the playing field.
The NAC was in a arrow formation with the Tico's forming the head and the Vic
and the Inflexible the shaft.
ESU was in a line abreast with the Manchuria in the centre flanked by the
Voroshilevs with the carrier on the right flank and the frigate on the left.
Turn one
Both forces launched all their fighters with the ESU ones taking up screening
duties around the Manchuria as it had the least fighter protection. The NAC
fighter moved ahead of the fleet.
The ESU moved forward at a sedately pace of 6mu directly towards the NAC, The
main NAC force sped up to 10mu and did likewise. The carrier slowed down
separating off the back of the arrow. No fire as out of range
Turn two
NAC fighters continued to move in front of the fleet but out of range of the
ESU fighters. ESU continued to screen.
ESU continued forward no change (wanted to keep the range open and see what
the NAC fighters were up to)
NAC accelerated to 12 and continued forward. The carrier continued to drop
back.
Still out of range.
Turn three
NAC fighters continued to move in front of the fleet but still out of range of
the ESU fighters. ESU continued to screen.
ESU took the chance that the NAC would accelerate again as therefore would
just be in range of the class 3's of the fleet.
NAC obliged with the two Ticos on the ESU's left flank and the Vic the other
Ticos accelerated and turned 2pts to port the carrier still crawled along to
the rear
ESU opened fire at extreme range with the Voroshilevs and inflicted damage to
two ticos ( Manchuria did not have a target due to the split) The Vic was just
out of range wishing for an extra mu or two. One tico took 2pts the other 3pts
and lost a class 1 Ftl and main drive to threshold checks! (normally the ESU
gunnery skills are sorely lacking, this time we must have calibrated the
targeting comps right!)
Tico attempted to fix Main drive.... Failed
Turn four.
ESU got initiative.
NAC moved fighter squadron within range where the ESU fleet would end up. ESU
interceptor pounced on it, rest of the NAC followed so sensing a good party so
did the rest of the ESU.
The ESU executed a one point turn to port and accelerated to 8 ( I was
attempting to get out on the flank of the NAC as I thought that they would
want to close range to bring their c1s into play and so would accelerate
again. I would then get one or two shots off and then carry on towards the
carrier)
The NAC center force speed up to 15 and the port mob turned three points
starboard back towards my fleet.
Fighter combat; (we may have had a misunderstanding here, the NAC assumed that
he had to fight my fighters and that then the survivors would get to attack my
ships as well. I didn't realise he thought the second part) We took it as a
multi fighter furball. The interceptors attacked first and knocked out two
craft. He attacked with a full squadron and hit a interceptor. My heavy
attacked a full squadron and also hit two craft. He
replied and got another interceptor. So far score 4-2 to the ESU at half
time. The standard fighter decided to attack one of the weekend squadrons and
got 5 kills i.e. one wasted he replied and missed totally so my final squadron
attacked a complete squadron and earned a Hero of the Union award
as they whacked all six. Final score 14-2 to the ESU. This is when the
NAC commander said ok now I expend another endurance and attack the
ships....
I pointed out that you only get to fire once a turn. He took it on the chin
and said darn ( actually was more like @#$%!@#) Ok lets move on to the ships!
As the ESU had initiative the Manchuria let rip with everything that could
bear at the Vic and the left over class 2 on a Tico. The gunners must have
been watching the furball as only one beam hit! The Vic replied by targeting
everything at one of the Voroshilevs and also only did one pt! Fire continued
to be traded for the rest of the turn with the NAC not managing to do too well
only scoring another point on the Voroshilev while the ESU cut off all the
Vics armour and scored 4 hits on the hull. Thank goodness for shields as the
NAC managed to roll lots of 4's!
Turn five.
The demoralized NAC admiral looked at his fleet and worked out that even with
maximum deceleration or maximum turn the ESU would be able to get behind him.
The ESU offered terms which he accepted.
Under strict FB fighter combat: 1. Once a squadron is engaged in dogfight they
can do nothing else; if they attempt to disengage before destroying the enemy,
they get a "free" (unopposed) attack as they disengage. He could have combat
moved away to attack the ships, but would have suffered fighter casualties for
fleeing the dogfight, followed by PDS casualties (can now be engaged as not
dogfighting!)
2. In base-base contact dogfights, all attacks are now resolved
simultaneously. If you use the old MT fighter rules for non-contact
fighter attacks, it would alternate the same as ship fire.
Mostly it's a case of discussing how you want to resolve your fighter combats
*before* both sides engage, as different methods can require a slightly
different attack plan to get the most out of your fighters.
Neath Southern Skies -http://home.pacific.net.au/~southernskies/
[Pirates] Dame Captain Washalot
[MKW2] Admiral Peter Rollins - Task Force Zulu-Beta
[Firestorm] Battletech PBeM GM
> -----Original Message-----
--- Flynn Richardson <Flynn.Richardson@unilever.com>
wrote: Questions Raised.
1) Do fighter have to fight back? i.e. could the NAC attack fighters ignored
the ESU fighters as just gone for the ships regardless? 2) Do you have to
designate all fighter attacks first? or can you wait until you see the effects
of the previous squadron?
Lessons learned:
Don't assume that the other guy wont take fighters!
Question 1) Published rules do not cover all
situations. My house rule for this is:
The attack fighters may attack the ship (using thier only attack) after
suffering the defending fighters attack. Question 2) My house rule for this
is: All attacks are assigned prior to resolution. Note that fighter Sq. do not
need to select a
specific target squadron if attacking/attacked
by multiple enemy Sqs. Damage would be divided across the various Sq. by a
prority established
by the attacking player. I.E. if my Sq of
interceptors attacked 1 Sq of Torp, 1 of Heavy and 1 of fast and got 7 kills,
the result would be 3 torp, 2 heavy, and 2 fast destroyed.
Bye for now,
First a quick definition. Dogfight. This is base to base contact of fighters
where one or both sides declare a dogfight. Otherwise it is Ranged Fighter
Combat.
For Ranged Fighter Combat, it is just like attacking a ship. Sides may trade
fire, or elect to target another fighter group, missile(s), or ship.
Dogfight: One side (A) moves into base to base contact with another fighter
group
(B).
Missiles launchand ships move. Missiles declare targets. Fighters declare
targets (including dogfights); Group A declares a dogfight with group B. Now B
may use secondary movement to disengage from the dogfight. If it does so,
Group B gets a free shot at Group A. Also, if
Group A has the endurance, it may also spend endurance to re-engage
group B in a dogfight by moving into base to base contact again (but give up
the free shot as a fighter group may only fire once per turn). If Group B
reenters a dogfight with group B, all fire in the dogfight is simultaneous.
Group A does not HAVE TO fire in the dogfight, but is prohibited from
targeting anything else while in the dogfight. The next turn both fighter
groups must decide if they will remain in the dogfight or leave it (giving the
other group a free shot). If Group B did not reingage the dogfight, group A
would be free to attack another fighter group, missiles, or a ship.
Alternate Interpretation when a group leaves a dogfight and the other
reingages: Group A decides to leave the dogfight. Group B gets a free shot at
Group
A.
Group B then reingages group A in a dogfight (using standard or secondary
movement). What is left of Group A now gets to fire at Group B, but Group B
may not fire back at Group A (as it has already fired). This interpretation
give group B a slight advantage as it does damage first.
-----
Brian Bell bkb@beol.net
http://www.ftsr.org
-----
> -----Original Message-----
[snip excelent AAR]
> Questions Raised.
Bell, Brian K wrote many things I agree with, but I have some comments:
> First a quick definition.
> Dogfight:
A doesn't really need to declare the dogfight; it did that
automatically when it moved to base-to-base contact. If B runs away and
A doesn't take its "parting shot", A could fire at some other target (unless
it was dogfighting other enemy fighters at the same time).
> Now B may use secondary movement to disengage from the dogfight. >If
No, the other way around: A gets a free shot at B. The side which does *not*
disengage gets a free shot at the side which does disengage.
[snip]
> If Group B reenters a dogfight with group B, all fire in the dogfight
Group B dogfights itself? <g> Should be "If Group A reenters..."
Here's an odd thing, though: If there's only *one* squadron per side in the
dogfight, they fire simultaneously according to FT2 p.17.
However, if at least one side has *more* than one squadron involved in the
same furball, the sides take turns firing one squadron at a time and apply the
damage immediately (before the next enemy squadron gets to fire), according to
FB1 p.6 "Multiple group dogfights". I *think* Jon intended this rule to apply
to all dogfight situations, but it doesn't actually say anything about the
case with just one squadron per side. Dunno know why he made this change,
either.
...as I said some days back, I think FB3 should gather together all the
fighter rules in one single package :-/
Later,
> --- Flynn Richardson <Flynn.Richardson@unilever.com>
> 1) Do fighter have to fight back? i.e. could the NAC
If the attack fighters are being dogfighted away from an enemy ship, they
could fly through, give up a free hit, and attack.
If the defensive fighters are engaged in an actual fighter screen, I believe
the FB1 rules make it pretty clear that you have to match up a fighter group
with each and every one of the screening fighter groups before you can attack
the ship with any of them. Thus, attack fighters could not ignore screening
fighters in the same way that they could in a dogpile in open space.
Either way, if I'm going to fly attack fighters, I'm going to put some
dogfighters between them and any defensive fighters in an effort to either
establish fighter superiority or at least blunt the enemy's. Fighters in
general are rather ineffective if they don't have superiority.
> 2) Do you have to designate all fighter attacks first?
No. I've always played it where you have to declare what fighters are
attacking which ships all at once, and roll from there. Otherwise, you could
make the ship burn off all its point defenses on just one squad at a time and
then dogpile once all the defenses are used. The fighter screens have to be
declared with ship movement (i.e. before attack declarations), but the fighter
intentions should all be resolved before any rolls take place.
> Lessons learned:
Yes, this is generally a bad tactical move in any game where you don't know in
advance what your opponent is flying.