From: Adrian Johnson <ajohnson@i...>
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:54:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Force sizes-Confusing US ranks - MORE Ranks, Canadian perspective. (and laughing with DAWGIE)
Hi folks, DAWGIE, your post nearly killed me I was laughing so hard. Nearly busted a gut... > you know this is pretty stupid, even for NATO. <snip> > THIS GOD LIKE INDIVIDUAL, WITH SMART TURN OUT, PACE STICK, LEATHER <snip> > "THAT MAN!" People think Monty Python was *kidding* when they parodied this... Watching a Sergeant Major take someone to task is an awsome sight, and the good ones have it down like an art form. Anyway, I thought I'd add in a bit of Canadian perspective for this ranks discussion. The Canadian army (coming out of the Commonwealth tradition) has a rank structure similar to the British. Private Recruit Private Corporal Master Corporal Sergeant Warrent Officer (WO III) Master Warrent Officer (WO II) Chief Warrent Officer (WO I) The officer ranks are the same as the Americans, though we have "Officer Cadet" below Second Lieutenant (OC does not yet have a commission, and does not have to be saluted). In our Navy, we reinstituted the rank of Commodore as the lowest Flag rank, so the navy now goes Commodore Rear Admiral Vice Admiral Admiral at the flag levels. Our army and airforce Flag ranks are the same as the US. The issue of equivalency is a difficult one, seemingly. As DAWGIE pointed out, while NATO might say that a US corporal = a UK corporal, that is, in practice, probably not true, from the perspective of what the person holding the rank does. As someone else pointed out, a fire team commander in the US army is "officially" (according to TOE's which are probably never met in the *actual* units) a Sergeant. A squad leader is a (Staff Sergeant)? Is that right? In the British army, a squad leader is usually a corporal. In the Canadian army, a Master Corporal or Sergeant. The rank of "Corporal" in the UK army is a full NCO, and I believe their Lance Corporals are treated as such also. In Canada, for some reason (I think having to do with wanting to differentiate us from the Brits - stupid politicking) they eliminated the rank "Lance Corporal", and created the rank "Master Corporal". A master corporal would be a fire team or section commander. A WO-III (Warrent Officer) would be the senior NCO in a platoon. A WO-II (Master Warrent Officer) would be the senior NCO in a company, and would probably be called "Sarn't Major", even though the Canadian Army does not actually have an official rank OR appointment called "Sergeant Major" any more. A WO-I (Chief Warrent Officer) would be the senior NCO in a Regiment/battalion, and would be called "RSM" or "Regimental Sergeant Major" in practice. We have "appointments" as well as ranks, as do many/most armed forces. There is no Rank above WO-I, but not all WO-I's are created equal. One could be appointed as a Command Chief Warrent Officer (of a really large formation), a Base Chief Warrent Officer (of a major installation), and so on. The mightyest of them all is the "Canadian Forces Chief Warrant Officer" who is the senior NCO in the Canadian Forces. We still have the appointments "Pipe Major", "Drum Major", "Trumpet Major", and "Bugle Major" also. One would not want to get on the wrong side of a CWO (WO-I) - for the reasons DAWGIE points out. So, a US buck Sergeant is probably equivalent to a UK Lance Corporal or Corporal, and a Canadian Master Corporal. The Canadian rank of "Corporal" is theoretically an NCO rank, but it isn't really anymore. The two most populous ranks in the entire CF are Corporals and Captains. If you get a commission, you'll be a Captain as long as you get your time in. If you're in as a ranker, you'll get to be Corporal as long as you have the time in and proper trade qualifications, etc. Getting past Captain and past Corporal requires more work, courses, time, experience, skill, (political connections...?), etc. Personally, I think "Master Corporal" sounds silly, but what the hell... Adds a bit of character I guess.