Fog of War again

Hi John,

Let me elaborate:

First of all, this an opinion piece, and I'm speaking in general terms. I
don't have a specific goal I'm trying to attain, nor do I speak about a
certain game system, let alone a specific Official(tm) background...

(Audience: Hiss! Boo! Get off the GZG list then!)

Miniatures gaming appeals to me in two basic ways:
 - the visual spectacle (with the obvious craft hobby tie-in)
 - the non-discrete nature of the environment

Putting in a rigid coordinate system, IMHO, transforms the game into a
boardgame played with nicely painted tokens instead of cardboard chits.
Peter Pig's "Square Bashing" rules are pretty much this -- fun games,
but not really miniatures games in my book. And so are many of the traditional
American "miniatures" games -- BattleTech, Silent Death etc.

Some game systems, e.g. Arty's Crossfire, have managed to implement a discrete
location system and still maintain the miniatures feel. But those solutions
have serious limitations, e.g. Crossfire works in cityfights but breaks down
in desert (Arty even readily admits it only works in certain environments).

The reason, IMHO, why you can't have a sensible WWII carrier or sub game in
miniatures, is not a question of scale but a question of the nature of
the conflict. Those two are extreme forms of hide'n'seek -- I find you,
you still don't know where I am, GAME OVER! Plus a small possibility for
mutual detection/kills.

It's the same basic reason you don't have Wall Street Stock Market
Trading Miniatures Game -- the most interesting aspect of the thing just
doesn't translate to miniatures.

Actually, the way I'd do carriers would be to set up the task forces on
*separate* tables -- the ships are never going to be within visual range
anyway -- play out the search stage on paper/computer and then deploy
aircraft minis for the strikes. Given the speed differential, the ships would
be effectively immobile on the table.

Subs would be even more boring...

What I'm trying to say is that IMHO miniatures games is not a good format for
hide'n'seek games. One should either PSB the hide'n'seek aspect away, or just
try another format.

In other words: The first rule of gunfights is "bring a gun".

OTOH, it's not my money if someone decides his Ferrari Spider is the perfect
vehicle for Offroad Championship racing...

> Mikko Kurki-Suonio wrote:

> Putting in a rigid coordinate system, IMHO, transforms the game into

Not necessarily.  Put your coordinates in a 6-digit format.  1/10th of
an inch is small enough that it shouldn't hamper your ability to put stuff
where ever you want it.

> Actually, the way I'd do carriers would be to set up the task forces

Yeah. In fact, one possibility would be to use any one of the published
map-and-chit games on the subject for the search stage, then instead of
resolving the strike using their rules, to switch to a map table.

> OTOH, it's not my money if someone decides his Ferrari Spider is the

If he, being young and unskillful, plays for shekels of silver and gold, Take
his money my son, praising Allah. The kid was ordained to be sold.
                --Kipling

At one of the HMGS-East conventions I attended many moons ago(Coldwars,
I think, maybe '91), the bunch that does Harpoon and the WW2 version
(CAS?)
put on a Coral Sea game that had two forces on seperate tables and played the
air attacks against each carrier force. Played very slowly though (the
rules aren't exactly quick-play) but the concepty itself seemed to work
okay...

Rob

[quoted original message omitted]

G'day Mikko,

> What I'm trying to say is that IMHO miniatures games is not a good

I think it depends on who you're playing with though. Some of the best games
I've ever had excitement wise have been hide and seek vs Derek (though between
us when you're cloaked there's nothing on the board to indicate where you are,
so it turns into a battle of wits and creativity), however on the flip side
there are just some people I'd never play it against as it just wouldn't work.
So I disagree that they'd all be boring.

Cheers

Beth

Beth said:
> I think it depends on who you're playing with though. Some of

Yeah, but that's your home life, Beth, definitely off topic....
:-)

> Beth said:

Bloody cheeky sod that you are! Besides I wasn't referring to debriefing...
that happens after the battle doesn't it?;P

Beth

> Beth Fulton wrote:

Hrm... Depends on what bets were made during the battle...