From: Thomas Barclay <Thomas.Barclay@s...>
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 14:39:59 -0400
Subject: FMA Skirmish guns and grenades
> ---------------------- REPLY ----------------------- Maybe then just talk how many attacks you get per mag rather than how many rounds (I still think in 15 seconds given on aimed semi-auto fire at anything other than longer ranges you would be popping off several rounds per target.) But it's really slicing hairs. BTW what's the ammo tracking mechanism? And is there then a reload action? ** I wanted to do rounds. For me there is a reload action. Or alternately, a roll. I think it could be like CC. You could attempt a "rapid load", but if you blow the roll, it takes you an action. Of course you already address this with the fact that firing auto gives you more attacks per firing action. That covers the getting hit with more rounds. You could expend two bursts on the guy to get him down, even if impact fails on the first pass. ** Good point. I'll try it out in some sort of invert fashion and see how it works. Adrian Johnson is coming down this weekend - so he and I will try some skirmishing Monday next. > Did I miss something in the rules? Is there a differnce between We > all know laying on the range, not having And > it occurs to me your target profile is a big function of this too - How would this come into effect, Range band shifts? (negated by aimed fire) Might be too harsh though...We could simplify it into up or down (same as in position) with one shift instead of three (Unless you get onto die roll modifiers which is what the system avoids) I'll have to playtest some options this weekend. ** I thought a RB shift was too much. My answer was: standing with rest or kneeling: add +1"/2"/4"/8"/16" to RB kneeling with rest or prone: add +2"/4"/8"/16"/32" to RB It is less than a 1 RB shift, but it is something. And note, green troops get more out of a rest than elite - the elite are steadier normally.... green still haven't got musketry down pat... > I also wish there was a way to bring this a tad closer to stargrunt. OK I understand he rolls his quality die, (Say a reg D8 beating a 2) now he's shouting to two guys within 3". Both are reg 3s. SO in both cases the command attempt has to beat a 3? Or are you saying that in both attempts he must roll higher than a 5? (3+2) (I like the latter) ** The latter, like a transfer action in SG2. Trying to preserve similar mechanics to make knowing one game like knowing the other. The shout is automatic at 3" for a regular. It's just the transfer he rolls for. Roll a d8 for him for each target, he has to beat (in your example) 5 on both rolls to get them moving (unmotivated slackers that they are!). > Obviously, the # of figures affected should be a consequence of Seems a little high, Needs to be some combo of experience and quality BUT the downside is that anyone who keeps guys that close together so they can all be controlled also subjects them to all kinds of nasty things like your MG auto fire and grenade bursts so there is a tradeoff. ** Well, stacking say 10 guys for a vet inside of his 5" command radius means they are nicely placed for a grenade. I see this also: The leader has his two actions. He wants his guys to follow. He uses one action to yell and one to move. (Because he needs at time to lead by example) Or does his command action cost the rest of his turn. ** I'd say he can move. He yells "Squad, Advance with Me!" or whatever, and goes hoping they all come. Can he move then pass on actions? ** Why not - he could move up to his squad and say "Squad, get over to that woods line!". Do the recipients get one action or two? ** They are activated. 2 actions, same as always. I suppose the simple way is they get two. Can a leader activate to subordinate leaders, say fire team leaders, who then pass on their activation's to the men (assuming the right checks are made) so you have a whole bunch going at once? ** If you like the complexity, yeah. Just like having a company commander and platoon commanders in SG2. ** Do like we did for SG2 and limit each dude to one reactivation though. No "hopping, skipping, shooting, dancing, super dudes". > How about this: Use a radius from explosion point. Say for a typical <snip> Regardless of "book" ratings or what not it is very rare that a grenade will severely hurt you significantly at 25 meters. ** Rolled d4 attacks lately? Pretty low odds.;) It''s a freak occurrence particularly with any body armor. ** With what I'm suggesting, D4 vs D6 or D8 armour is mostly fairly safe. ;) Sure there is a low percentage that a fragment might get you (or poke out an eye). We've been pelted by grenade fragments at times. ** One of the things that the system doesn't address is that some weapons act much worse against armour (Twilight 2000 had an armour multiplier). Fragments are one of those. They'll chew up bare flesh, but armour is more than effective against them. I remember seeing a guy (stupid Lieutenant, but then again are there any other kind?) hit in the face at about 20 meters and it was not much of a big deal. ** Of course, we've all read about the guys at 50m killed by a fragment. (In ARSOF the common joke is "safety is a training distracter" though they always get more anal as we approach our quota of training casualties.) ** I'm curious, do you need tags? Or can anyone make a casualty? <g> The concussion is scarier. Keep in mind none of this particularly negates Tom's stats above. It's reasonable to expect future grenades to get lighter and more powerful. BTW thrown hand grenades are more dangerous (burst wise) than rifle grenades. ** So are mine. Great minds think alike (plus I thought they were smaller - like 25-30mm whereas a hand grenade is bigger). > Indoors, the results are less pretty. The explosion and fragments I say if a grenade goes off in a small room (and the room all fits within the first two range band, then just 2d12 the guy! It's that nasty. (1d12 vs PA) But your way is just as well and consistent. Ditto on open doors. ** It just figures out if a hallway is big enough - a long enough hall will allow the explosion to expand down it as it isn't totally restricted. ** Note that in woods, a grenade's effect should be more pronounced I think (never thrown one in trees, but if it works like arty, the flying splinters will mess you up). Double the attack dice, but double the drop off (or just half the radius if you are lazy) in dense woods. > So, following these suggestions: Just make sure the flashbang does nothing but suppress, ** I know someone on the Canadian RCMP SERT team that lost hearing on account of it due to it landing under the chair she was tied to during training. I'd call that an injury. She was dazed and needed treated. As I said, everyone recovers, but I don't think it just flash and sound.... or maybe I'm thinking of a T-Flash? Hmmmm. but in non PA or combat armor guys there's no recovery for one turn OR make suppression removal a task check +2 or 3 something high. ** That's why you get the extra suppression. Two suppressions will write you off for a turn. It's the few seconds of suppression you want to capture but then again with a leader activating successfully several guys, one guy pops the door and tosses in grenade, it goes off. The other guy also activated goes in and shoots all in one smooth move. BTW I make a guy spend one action prepping the Grenade (auto success) He can then hold onto it for any length of time (within reason) but god forbid if he gets hit or (suppressed?), ** how about wounded, auto drop. Hit or suppressed, roll quality to beat 2 if suppressed, 4 if hit but not wounded. then he drops it. Anyway, inside he has to make a successful task check to get it through the door or whatever small opening he's tossing it through unless he's right there and hooking/dropping it around a corner. Then we check for scatter. And then boom! ** Sounds right. I'm going to fight an outdoor skirmish with these and my long arm rules (modified by your suggestions) early next week. About a dozen OU and a sniper versus an ESU patrol of about 12-18.