FMA Grenades

2 posts ยท Aug 18 1999 to Aug 18 1999

From: Thomas Barclay <Thomas.Barclay@s...>

Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 11:41:12 -0400

Subject: FMA Grenades

I was just speaking to a friend about the stats we use in Canada for our
grenades, and I'm not sure if they are identical to Los' grenades.... nor am I
certain how these compare to the grenades stat'd in many other games such as
Traveller, Morrow Project, Aftermath, Twilight 2000, various Vietnam games in
which there can be offensive and defensive grenades.....

But my thought for a grenade is this:
We really have two threats - fragmentation radius and concussion
radius. They do different things. Fragmentation penetrates armour by piercing
and causes wounds. Concussion waves produce knockdown, destroy walls etc., and
beat the living crap out of a Humans innards without penetrating.

These probably get modelled together for ease of play in FMA (and our attack
mechanic does not differrentiate blunt trauma from piercing)

A typical hand grenade can kill people out to 100m (sometimes). It will most
likely kill you if you are within 25m. Check this out in gov't stats if you
don't believe it. Generally, you often can't throw a grenade far enough so
that if you were in the open standing up you'd like the results. You want to
be behind cover, in a trench, or at least lying prone.

So, how to model this?

How about this: Use a radius from explosion point. Say for a typical
grenade, 2". That means you have 0-2", 3-4", 5-6", 7-8", 9-10", etc.
You have an attack value at the centre, and a drop off rate. Say 24/4.
So you roll the dice that matches this best - 2d12 at the first RB,
2d10 at the next, 2d8 at the next, 1d12, 1d8, 1d4, nada. If there is an odd
value, round down. So your grenade could affect someone out to 12" radius,
which is 25m from the blast centre. Conservative, but perhaps fun for a game.
This "drop off" might not model real explosive
drop off - I think concussion drops off with cube of radius - but it
models the hurling fragments reasonably. I think anyone attacked by a grenade
(in the radius) should pick up an automatic suppression counter. <Obviuosly,
the answer if you are in the radius, to avoid this, is be behind solid cover
that prevents any dice being rolled against you>. These attacks should be
rolled against walls and such too and could knock them down.

Indoors, the results are less pretty. The explosion and fragments are
contained by the walls of a room (you hope). If you are in a room where more
than half the grenades overall area can be deployed
(eyeball it), then don't worry about the effects of enclosure - there
is space. If you are in a room (say a 3mx4m) where a grenade goes off (less
than half the radius can be employed), then you get compounding effects. In
this case, DOUBLE the attack dice used against the target. If you'd normally
have used 1d10, use 2d10. (or d10x2 if that suits you). Note if a grenade is
setoff in a room with an open door, people
outside the doorway are fair game - doorways with no doors do not stop
fragments...

So, following these suggestions:
FMA Normal Frag Hand Grenade: 24/4 (2d12 0-2", 2d10 3-4", 2d8 5-6",
1d12 7-8", 1d8 9-10", 1d4 11-12")
FMA Defensive Frag (designed to be thrown from a trench or fighting
position):36/4
(3d12 0-2", 3d10 3-4", 3d8 5-6", 2d12 7-8", 2d10 9-10", 2d8 11-12",
1d12 13-14", 1d8 15-16", 1d4 17-18")
FMA Normal AP or HEDP Rifle Grenade: 20/4 (2d10 0-2", 2d8 3-4", 1d12
5-6", 1d8 7-8", 1d4 9-10")
Controlled Effect CT Grenade: 20/8 (2d10 0-2", 1d12 3-4", 1d4 5-6")
CT Stun Grenade: 24/8 (2d12 0-2", 2d8 3-4", 1d8 5-6", any wounded
recover at +1 so 5 or 6 recovers, only a 1 kills)
Flashbang: 32/16 (3d10 0-2", 2d8 3-4", can be defended against with
full head protection (visor/ears), all wounds will recover, automatic
suppression if in blast radius plus any suppresion gained from wounds)

Just another 0.02...

From: Los <los@c...>

Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 12:14:16 -0700

Subject: Re: FMA Grenades

> Thomas Barclay wrote:

> How about this: Use a radius from explosion point. Say for a typical

<snip>

Regardless of "book" ratings or what not it is very rare that a grenade will
severely hurt you significantly at 25 meters. It''s a freak occurrence
particularly with any body armor. Sure there is a low percentage that a
fragment might get you (or poke out an eye). We've been pelted by grenade
fragments at times. I remember seeing a guy (stupid Lieutenant, but then again
are there any other kind?) hit in the face at about 20 meters and it was not
much of a big deal. (In ARSOF the common joke is "safety is a training
distracter" though they always get more anal as we approach our quota of
training casualties.) The concussion is scarier. Keep in mind none of this
particularly negates Tom's stats above. It's reasonable to expect future
grenades to get lighter and more powerful.

BTW thrown hand grenades are more dangerous (burst wise) than rifle grenades.

> Indoors, the results are less pretty. The explosion and fragments are

I say if a grenade goes off in a small room (and the room all fits within the
first two range band, then just 2d12 the guy! It's that nasty. (1d12 vs PA)
But your way is just as well and consistent. Ditto on open doors.

> So, following these suggestions:

Just make sure the flashbang does nothing but suppress, but in non PA or
combat armor guys there's no recovery for one turn OR make suppression
removal a task check +2 or 3 something high. It's the few seconds of
suppression you want to capture but then again with a leader activating
successfully several guys, one guy pops the door and tosses in grenade, it
goes off. The other guy also activated goes in and shoots all in one smooth
move.

BTW I make a guy spend one action prepping the Grenade (auto success) He can
then hold onto it for any length of time (within reason) but god forbid if he
gets hit or (suppressed?), then he drops it. Anyway, inside he has to make a
successful task check to get it through the door or whatever small opening
he's tossing it through unless he's right there and
hooking/dropping it around a corner. Then we check for scatter. And then
boom!

> Just another 0.02...

ditto...