FMA DSII+ [ATTN: JON]

Roger Books replied to MWS regarding Brian Bell's DS-FMA system:

> >Brian Bell has already the conversion - here's the URL:

Realistic? In SF? Well... <G>

I find Brian's game mechanics very elegant and easy to use during play (yes,
I've tried them). Unfortunately they don't always succeed in
duplicating the damage results of the chit draw system - and where they
don't succeed, they do it in a way which reduces the "flavour" of the
different weapon types by quite a lot :-(

The main problems is that the difference between a D4 and a D6 is far, *far*
smaller than the difference between 1 and 2 chits, and also considerably
smaller than the difference between Yellow and Red chit
validity (etc. for the other die sizes/chit validities). The effect is
that the various weapons are *much* closer to one another in lethality than
they are in the chit system, both when you look at weapons of the same type
but of different sizes and when you look at weapons of the same size but of
different types. (All/2 is much closer to Red than to Red+Yellow, too.)

For example, look at a target with Armour/5A (Armour D12 in Brian's
system). Using the chits a HEL/1 (Validity: Yellow) has a 4% chance to
kill
it (draw a BOOM), a HEL/5 has 21% chance to kill it, and a DFFG/5 at
Close range (Validity: All*2) has 91% chance to kill it. Quite a difference,
no?
Using Brian's system the HEL/1 (Power D4, Impact D4) has 18% chance to
kill
this same target (almost as good as the HEL/5 used to be!), the HEL/5
(Power D12, Impact D4) jumps to 48%, but the DFFG/5 (Power D12, Impact
D12) *drops* to a paltry 62%... and that's at *close* range. At longer ranges

the HEL/5 beats the DFFG/5 - the DFFG/5 still kills more targets per
*hit*,
but the HEL/5 *hits* more often so scores more kills in total.

Many weapons also get rather more lethal - particularly the size/1s and
IAVRs (*not* "IVAR", please - Ivar is a Swedish man, IAVR is an Infantry

Anti-Vehicle Rocket), most of which score 2-3 times more kills using
Brian's system, and infantry firefights are just plain massacres. PA in
particular get *far* more vulnerable than they are using the chits, and
there's not much difference between Rifle and PA/APSW/Assault unless the

target is dug-in.

There is another DS-FMA system in testing, based on what Jon posted on
this list some years back (Mars 7th, 1999). It is slower than Brian's system

due to using multiplication rather than an immediate comparison of the die
rolls, but it does a better job of retaining the respective characters of the
various weapon families. (Still not an exact match, I'm afraid.)

Jon, I tried to mail you yesterday but it bounced so I try asking through the
list instead: is it OK if I post the current QDS version here on the

main list?

> It looks to me that with a little effort DS can be given much

The problem is that by giving DS the same "look and feel" system as SG is that
the different scales don't necessarily have the same look and feel
-
you risk giving a large-scale tank battle the same feel as a
close-up-and-personal infantry firefight. Same problem as when you
attempt
to use Warhammer to re-fight large field battles, really :-/

Later,

Oerjan, Thanks for your critique!

I agree with you that the results are much less different between
weapons than with the chit pulling. I also realized that All/2 is
closer to the Red validity than Red & Yellow, but wanted to keep the
simplisity of a single shift in die type.

One of the things that I have considered is to require both the Power Die and
the Impact Die rolls exceed the Armor die roll for a kill. One exceeding would
result in a damage marker. A tie on the higher die would result in a roll for
immobile, or systems down. This results in a broader range of results and the
results are less deadly. However, it does result in a LOT of damaged vehicles.

I am in the process of capturing the percentages to kill, damage, immobilize,
cause a systems down, cause a firer systems down, and have no effect at all
for each of the weapon sizes and chit validities. I also want to capture the
probabilities for my original dice system, the dice system as revised above,
and for rolling size number of validity dice vs armor level number of d12s
(both adding and just using highest). I will let you know when I complete the
project.

---
Brian Bell bbell1@insight.rr.com ICQ: 12848051 AIM: Rlyehable YIM: Rlyehable
The Full Thrust Ship Registry:
http://www.ftsr.org
---

PS. Sorry about the IVAR. I am dyslexic and did not notice that I have been
reading it incorrectly all along.

[quoted original message omitted]

> PS. Sorry about the IVAR. I am dyslexic and did not notice that I

That's okay, I'm not dyslexic, but I think of it as Ivar anyway. Jon

[quoted original message omitted]

On Wed, 26 Sep 2001 20:04:03 -0400 "Laserlight" <laserlight@quixnet.net>
writes:
> PS. Sorry about the IVAR. I am dyslexic and did not notice that I

Pronounceable acronyms? Federal law forbids it, Sir!

<grin>

Gracias,

> Glenn Wilson wrote:

> >> PS. Sorry about the IVAR. I am dyslexic and did not notice that I

But Jon is *English*. It's the *Americans* that go for unpronouncable acronyms
like HMMWV and MLRS and still attempt to pronounce them; the
English tend to use rather more pronouncable acronyms like HELLFIRE :-)

Later,

> PS. Sorry about the IVAR. I am dyslexic and did not notice that I

On Thu, 27 Sep 2001 07:12:28 +0200 Oerjan Ohlson
> <oerjan.ohlson@telia.com> writes:

Then, yes, clearly he should 'know' better. Just shows you Jon is fluent in
American acronymese.

Gracias,

On Thu, 27 Sep 2001 21:25:53 +0100 Ground Zero Games <jon@gzg.com>
writes:
> PS. Sorry about the IVAR. I am dyslexic and did not notice that I

HMMMMOKAY

It's driving me crazy... Oh, never mind, I am already...