G'day,
> BDS was floated quite a bit further back but there hasn't been
Beyond that there's a few "alien recipe" books proposed on various lists
(where you pick and choose from a list to get an alien mix you like). It does
come down more to demand. As a group we still do seem to prefer to play
Humans. Of all the aliens the Kra'Vak get the most attention. If
there really was a mega-demand for more aliens there would be more
suggested sets posted here or on the xenology list (which I haven't heard from
in years) and my guess is they'd be more alien figs in the GZG catalogue;)
This seems to be a wider issue too. If you look at every major science fiction
manufacturer on the web if they don't look like an "aliens"
alien or a "predator" then they quietly disappear/dwindle while the
human lines of the same system go on longer.
Admittedly there is some weight to the "if a book came out that'd generate
interest and thought as the strawman is there" argument. However, as someone
who enjoys tinkering with aliens (at least 11 different separate species so
far down in semi to reasonable depth plus a bunch more as caricatures only) I
find that few people (beyond nutcases like me) really want true aliens. As
much as people say they don't want people in rubber suits when you hand
someone an alien the majority of the time its "oh butt I can't...." or "I
wouldn't act like...". We (as a species) are very tightly linked to our
perception of the world and so don't feel comfortable often when asked to step
wide of it. Having watched players here and overseas, the Kra'Vak are popular
because they are typically played as aggressive humans. Ro'Kah for instance is
always seen as this "terror" trait and new Kra'Vak players see it as a
thrilling feature. It's a seasoned player that realises it's a big Achilles
heal when long range or sniper fire is in play. As soon as that happens a
bunch of people (though not all) drop them as "they're flawed" when really
they've just got a different set of strengths and weaknesses to work around.
In a similar vein I'd say that's why we see less of the real range of
differentiation in human types that are likely into the future (where
people have various cybernetic or gene-based modifications or different
maturation environments under different gravities).
Sorry this turned into a bit of a rant, but I was simply trying to point out
that it's a rare bird that really does want to play an alien.
On Feb 26, 2007, at 5:31 PM, <Beth.Fulton@csiro.au>
> <Beth.Fulton@csiro.au> wrote:
> This seems to be a wider issue too. If you look at every major science
The 40k universe has examples of aliens which fit neither profile (neatly) and
they tend to go onward (some better than others mind you). Then again with the
exception of one alien race they are physically close to human form (two arms,
two legs, etc.). Having said that I see your point though.
Damo
> On 2/26/07, Beth.Fulton@csiro.au <Beth.Fulton@csiro.au> wrote:
> Sorry this turned into a bit of a rant, but I was simply trying to
I think you're right. Unless it's a popular alien from TV or movies (and most
of those are humans in rubber suits; Klingons are basically just samurai
vikings), folks don't want to play them.
At least with regard to ground troops. Starships are a bit different...
Personally, I like the idea of playing something different. I guess you and I
are just part of the minority.
G'day,
> The 40k universe has examples of aliens which fit neither profile
You're right I had actually forgotten about them as I was thinking things that
look alien rather than disfigured humans. There's also very little alien about
them in game effect really. Mostly its more tech rather than psychology. Yes
the Necrons resurrect but what else would you expect from undead in space? The
old GW (was it GW?) robot decision table rules was a much cooler way of trying
to differentiate more.
Cheers
> On Feb 26, 2007, at 8:15 PM, <Beth.Fulton@csiro.au> wrote:
> You're right I had actually forgotten about them as I was thinking
I think you're talking about the original Rogue Trader. I have the main book
in the other room but I don't remember if the funky rules
appeared in the main text or in one of the add-on books.
GW does what it can with the stat system it has developed over the years.
There is a certain flavor to the various races though. Tau don't like close
combat and rely on their weapons to settle the score. Their stat line reflects
this with poor close combat values (Mr. Acord knows *all* about this). Whether
this dislike for close combat is a result of poor martial skill or just a deep
seated psychological hatred of getting messy is beyond GW's scope methinks.
To me it leans towards the psychological but what do I know?
Damo
[quoted original message omitted]
Showing my roots...
The robot programming rules came from the red covered Chapter Approved
supplement for Rogue Trader, and were a reprint of a White Dwarf article, I
believe. A rather nice idea, where it cost points to have a
complex program driving your robot, and the program ran slower/your
robot did less, but small, tight programs were prone to friendly fire,
especially as the robot became damaged and decision points in the program
changed to randomized results.
Rogue Trader also made the original Tyranids and Zoats into very interesting
and distinctive races, but the Eldar didn't become an interesting race with
its own mythology until later.
The Tyranids may be the least human of the GW alien races, but they offer
something most any wargamer relishes; near perfect command and control and an
imperative to throw your troops' lives away in bold gambits, caring nothing
for the lives of the individual trooper. That's a theme in most GW army lists,
but the Tyranids take it to the ultimate extreme.
> I saw some Tau stuff in the GW shop window a while ago that looked
I believe this is called the 'Blanchitsu' aesthetic, after John Blanche.
> Several players in our group don't like the perceived complexity of the
If the game is about putting yourself in the admiral's seat and enjoying the
thrill and power of the moment, you don't want to micromanage whether each
ship saved enough power to fire their guns. Some people love the attention to
detail required to run Sa'vasku, but to a good sized chunk of the audience,
all that math makes it 'work', not 'fun'.
> On Feb 27, 2007, at 2:26 AM, john tailby wrote:
> What do you mean "beyond the scope of GW".
By "beyond the scope" I really meant to say "beyond the scope of your average
12 year old power gamer" which just so happens to be GW's target market.
*I* see GW trying to model racial psychological differences but will your
average newb? Will they see the models and go "neato! I must have them all!"
or do they buy the 'dex and view it as a modeling of psychological
differences? I would bet on the former...at least initially.
Damo
G'day,
> Their profile accurately reflects their indoctrination and training.
Yes but its not very different from human, which was my point.
> In order to be able to inspire people to buy the models in any numbers
> people have to be able to relate to their figures. You don't want
See that's also my point. For a minority of us that's exactly what we want! I
REALLY don't want something that looks human, I'm even very
selective about stuff that's ursoid/reptilian/insectoid/felinoid etc.
> GW has Tyranids (6 armed extra galactic predators) all their
They're probably the most interesting of GW's figs for me, but its rare to see
any of the more interesting rules survive edition to edition. Typically the
cool stuff gets trimmed back in line with "heavy weapon specialist in funny
suit" constraints. Which probably sells more books (to be fair) but got boring
a long time ago for me. Which is why I took the figs and play different
systems now where people aren't concerned if I've designed my own rules.
> One of the most popular icon aliens from TV are not
I know love em to bits the cute little pepperpots they are. The funny things
is they'rea lot tougher to play and play "honestly" as a Dalek than you'd
guess. Many people have got excited when I've trotted them out and have asked
to have a go. They then want to use cover and caution etc which just ain't in
the Dalek spirit. Mind you even I've only resorted to calling in DS nukes on a
few occassions and Derek understood
;)
> I can see why people would go
Unfortuately its too often the chase the average player doesn't get past that
stage and ditches the race and whinges loudly every time its brought up in
discussion. Ultimately that does not encourage rules authors to be daring.
Cheers