What are the tactical doctrines governing how far apart one should space one's
ships?
If there aren't any area effect weapons, why not clump as close as possible?
Granted that when ships blow up they do damage to the ships around them, but
there are some very good reasons for flying in a dense formation.
If an enemy ship has a weapon which doesn't bear on one ship in a dense
formation he is very likely to not have a target at all. If you are firing on
a
loose formation, you will at least have _some_ target.
Also, the dense formation can concentrate its firepower on the closer target,
doing more total damage.
ADAFs and Interceptor squadrons can more efficiently protect a denser
formation.
Some people abuse the FTL - Jump rules to improvise
area effect weapons. I think that any jump malfunction chart should take into
account disparities of mass. For example: A 2 Mass boat attempting to jump
with 6" of 200 Mass of shipping should be more likely to just burn out its
drive.
A 100 Mass Dreadnought shouldn't have to worry too much about jumping near a 2
Mass boat.
I am going to work out some good numbers for a drive failure chart with: Jump
Fails Jump fails and damages drive and FTL systems Jump fails and drive
explodes Jump quietly destroys ship in hyperspace Jump fails and inflicts area
damage Jump Succeeds, inflicts area damage, roll threshold check on Jump and
Drive systems Jump Succeeds and inflict area damage
Maybe there should be two rolls, one to see what happens to the jump, and one
to see how badly you mangled the jumping ship.
How much should a legitemate Area Effect missile cost? Should the damage an
Area Effect missiles does penetrate shields?
I suppose even without Area Effect Weapons there is some justification for
spacing, if only so you have more time to intercept the Submunition Carriers
before they are within 6" of your Capital ships.
What kind of spacing do people have between their ships and why? And how well
does that spacing work?
Hello All
<snip>
> Some people abuse the FTL - Jump rules to improvise
This kind of behaviour is unsporting, we simply disallow it, and in the comp I
have run I also disallowed any player from doing it. Don't add complication by
jump malfunction rules, simply ask that players enter into the spirit of the
game and not do it.
Peace and Love
> On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Michael Sandy wrote:
> What are the tactical doctrines governing how far
Part of the reason is the visual appeal. If you are going to fly all your
escorts in tight formations, why use anything more than 1 fig per squadron or
per 100 for that matter.
Another reason is that often you aren't totally sure what the other person
has. A wavegun or nova cannon can really sweep a section of the board clean.
Dispersion also workd against missiles and fighters. By placing a screen of
ADAF ships in the front the opponent has to decide to waste fighers on them or
take the chance that some are going to get shot down as they go by. With
endurance and morale rules this means you have to regulate your resources more
carefully. In the case of missiles if your forces are dispersed enough it
forces the other player to either disperse the missiles to cover the possible
end points or concentrate on a single ship. In either case this allows a
greater number of ships to survive.
In terms of fleet dispersion it is the classic balance between concentrartion
of firepower versus concentration of vulnerability. This is why you often see
the phase "killer Dreadnaught" being tossed around
-
it offers a lot of firepower, high thrust and enough survivability for things
that can catch it to pose a major problem without resorting to cheese tactics.
Of course the Killer DN might be considered cheese in the first place.
--Binhan
> If there aren't any area effect weapons, why not clump
This is why many fleets carry ships with Wave Guns.
There are 2 area effect weapons in FT/MT:
Spinal Mount Nova Cannon: This is weapon generally has too many disadvantages
to be taken seriously. It was included in the rules (by Jon's own admission)
as an inside joke.
Wave Gun: This is a toned-down version of the SMNC. It is heavy and
expensive. But if used correctly, it is a good weapon to supplment a more
conventional fleet. Excelet for missile defence if the missiles are launched
from more than 1 turn's movmemnt away.
> > If there aren't any area effect weapons, why not clump
I agree, but some campaigns don't allow Wave Guns or Nova Cannon, so my
question was aimed at them. Without area effect weapons what reasons do people
have for spreading out:
So far we have:
Anti-fighter escorts use ADAF against fighters short of the fleet.
Submunition ships and missile ships have different range requirements, so I
can see squadrons of submunition ships and missile ships becoming widely
separated.
I have a hard time seeing why the Submunition squadron itself of a fleet would
spread out. Especially if they have Sand Casters! Obligatory abuse: 3
Submunition ships in close formation each with a forward Sand Caster.
Effectively they get 3 levels of shields while closing, for much less Mass
than level 3 shields.
As long as they are far enough apart so they don't take damage if one is
destroyed, why spread out?
> Michael Sandy wrote:
Micheal, The visual effect is much better. I have a sneaking feeling you have
done a lot of Traveller and High Guard.
Bye for now,
> On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Brian Bell wrote:
> This is why many fleets carry ships with Wave Guns.
In our local group's campaign game, we've found the Nova Cannon as an
excellent "seige" weapon against military outposts. Against moving starships
we've found that it's best used to "herd" their movement. Sometimes we get
lucky and actually hit moving targets but it's rare in our group.
Pete
> In our local group's campaign game, we've found the Nova Cannon as an
That's the same thing we found. The Wavegun works a little better, mainly
because you can move a little. As a counter to the seige weapon, I've
found that Nova cannons and Wave guns work really good as anti-missile
weapons for a base.
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I nearly forgot the big reason for at least initial fleet dispersion:
FTL emergence mishaps.
A fleet of 100 SM boats is going to spread out over a huge area in order to
not accidently emerge within
6".
At a spacing of about 12" there is still a fairly good chance that some of the
boats will overlap. That is over 120" of space, which takes even thrust 8
ships a good amount of time to cross.
This is another slight edge that heavier ships and tenders have over small
ships, they can emerge from hyper in a more cohesive formation. The larger the
point force you have heading towards a destination the greater the premium for
fewer heavier ships which can survive FTL emergence mishaps better.
On the subject of FTL emergence, if I were designing a system defense fleet
I'd want firm rules before I built the fleet as to how far away the hyper
limit was. This is something the space nation's Admirals and fleet designers
would take into account.
If I could, I'd have Sensor Mines all along the edge of the hyper limit. I
figure replacement mines cost about 2 points each, with the mine laying
equipment itself costing 4, your figures may differ. At 2 points they are
cheaper than any sensor
platform except a 1 Mass non-ftl Merchant Ship.
For those fans of Honor Harrington, I believe you'll agree that remote Sensor
Platforms could add a great deal to strategic and tactical planning.
Naturally, the Sensor Platform ring would be backed up by scouts who would
attempt to keep pace with the enemy fleet and intercept enemy scouts.
Another idea I had for system defense:
The Nebula Generator: 2 Mass 6 points Generates 1" diameter Nebula for each 10
Mass cargo used. Nebulas created this way last for weeks, and are a peacetime
navigation hazard.
Nebulas do not usually show up on Passive Scan.
Given enough time, the defenders could create long skinny Nebulas to maneuver
amongst.
As I understand it, entering a Nebula at 80 isn't good for your ship...:):):)
Even if the enemy detects the Nebula and slows down, that just makes them good
targets for your System Defense Missile boats, zipping by parallel to the
Nebula.
<self aggrandizement mode on> Speaking of Fleet Spacing, I just played a FT
game today. 5000 points per side. This was about double the normal points of
the games I played. My opponet designed a force that was heavy on AA Mega
Beams and Fighters. He had a force of about 16 ships, of which 6 were
capitals. I had about 30 ships ranging from 4 tons to 40 tons. The battle
looked grim when my 6 Strikeboats disappeard in a hail of AA Mega Beam fire
(my mistake for using them wrong). At the same time, 12 flights of fighters
headed my way. That was until I unloaded with 2 Wave Gun cruisers.
The first Wave gun caught all 12 flights of fighters ;-) as well as 4
other of his ships (2d6 damage each). My fleet weathered his return fire. I
rolled a 4 and a 6 for recharging the Wave Guns. Next turn, I unloaded with
the recharged Wave Gun and the OTHER 2 Wave Cruisers. By the end of this turn
he was down 6 cruisers, 4 destroyers, and 4 of his capitals have made
threshold checks. He offered surrender. I humbly accepted. <self
aggrandizement mode off>
My worthy opponet made the following mistakes: High density of forces
Slow speed
With all the AA Bats, larger ships, and a lot of fighters, he was "letting me
charge into his guns". If he would have moved at a reasonable speed and start
dispersing his fleet when the first wave gun fired, he may have still won the
day.