Fleet Book Tugs

Does the Fleet book rules cover tugs? I haven't seen anything (which could
mean I'm not looking in the right place.) What about starbases? I'd assume
they just don't have drives, but I hate to assume....
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> Does the Fleet book rules cover tugs? I haven't seen anything (which

No, it doesn't. We need to address Tugs in the next volume. Same for
Starbases, though for the time being just use the new FB designs system mixed
in with the suggestions for stations in MT.

> Does the Fleet book rules cover tugs? I haven't seen anything (which

Ummmm, I'm confused by your response, Jon. Certainly I have seen no rules for
Bases, but I think there is a qualifier that needs to be added to your
response about tugs (as the original question was a little vague)

The fleet book gives rules on constructing Tugs - better rules that
plain
FT, allowing for more flexible Tug design.  However - and I think this
was
the meaning of your reply - There are no rules for how tugs interact on
the table, nor any designs for Tugs in the book.

I think that generalized rules for "Docking & Undocking" (not the same as
retrieving fighters) will help cover a lot of currently grey areas. (Tugs
grabbing their cargo, Boarding and Rescue operations, Base interactions,
etc.)  I look forward to ideas about this - my own thoughts are usually
muddied and incoherent. By the time your rules reach print they seem to convey
an elegance that works well.

> At 10:11 AM 8/6/98 -0900, you wrote:

I saw no place that explains the mass or cost of a tug FTL drive and that is
what I was refering to.

> I think that generalized rules for "Docking & Undocking" (not the same
(Tugs
> grabbing their cargo, Boarding and Rescue operations, Base

I would like to see for some of these things, too. I like having starbase
assault scenarios. Docked ships would be nice to add (as targets:)....
)

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> Eric Fialkowski wrote:

Page 8, under 'Tugs And Tenders' (paraphrased):

Mass is as normal for the ship itself, plus 20% of the mass it can tow through
FTL.

Chris

FTFB p8. Last Paragraph Left hand column (tender) and First paragraph
righthand column (Tug)

---Why have docking? Why not a rescue?

Commander Seth Daloche stood up as the communications officer piped the
incoming message over the brigde intercom. The sender's voice quivered,
revealing the fear he fought to conceal.

"Mayday, Mayday - This the NAC Research Station SL23, to anyone who may
be insystem. Our remote sensor platforms have gone off line after reading the
incoming jump footprint of no less than a full taskforce. Initial scans seem
consistent with the known operational configuration of the alien Kra'Vak. Our
best estimates give a time to intercept of 8.24 hours. We are unarmed and our
single lifeboat has been disabled. Anyone who receives this message please
respond."

The commander lowered his head and stood silent for several seconds while
contemplating alternatives.

 _Damn.  The corporation may never forgive me for revealing our
presence, but I can't leave them here to die...and besides, we may be able to
turn
this to our advantage_. As the message started to repeat, he settled
back into his command chair and raised his head firm.

"Comm, cancel audio. Helm, plot a minimum time course to rendezvous with the
station."

Daloche thumbed the person-to-person com button on his display and the
com system chimed the connection. "Major Burke, start preparing your troops
-
we go live in just over 7 hours.  Main group is to perform a _friendly_
evac of all the civilians on the station, make sure they know that. Military
and security types are disposable if you can cover it in the confusion.
Secondary team is to perform covert recovery of technical data and research
prototypes. Only the best of the team please. our hand has been forced, and I
can only give you half an hour. Get on it." The commander clicked the com off
before the major could ask any more questions.

"Gentlemen, fate is conspiring against us - it seems as if our prize is
about to be snatched from our grasp - let's see if we can snatch victory
here. If we play it right our true purpose here may never be revealed, and the
evidence of our operation will be erased by those incoming savages... Com,
Prepare to send Audio only." The comm officer tapped a few keys the nodded to
the commander.

"SL23, this is the IDL Hermes with escort on unscheduled operation in the
inner Asteroid belt - we have received your distress signal and are en
route at maximum acceleration. We are unable to confirm your sensor readings.
Please verify if possible. Be prepared to provide all possible navigational
assistance to our astrogators during our approach. Current estimates place our
ETA at 7.53 hours. Further updates will be sent as we refine our course data.
Begin all possible evacuation preparations immediately."

The comm clicked off.   _And pray we can reach you in time..._

> The fleet book gives rules on constructing Tugs - better rules that

I saw no place that explains the mass or cost of a tug FTL drive and that is
what I was refering to.

> I think that generalized rules for "Docking & Undocking" (not the same
(Tugs
> grabbing their cargo, Boarding and Rescue operations, Base

I would like to see for some of these things, too. I like having starbase
assault scenarios. Docked ships would be nice to add (as targets:)....
)

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+          Eric Fialkowski, just me          +
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+                                            +
+    http://netnow.micron.net/~ericski       +
+                                            +
+ http://netnow.micron.net/~ericski/full.htm +
+                                            +
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Thanks to Chris also. I guess I should have looked through once more before
posting...

Rescues would work also. Just something other than line up on opposite sides
and blow each other up. Not that those battles are bad, I just like to put
some more thought into the battles.

> At 05:20 PM 8/6/98 -0900, you wrote:

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> Eric Fialkowski wrote:

> > I saw no place that explains the mass or cost of a tug FTL drive and

If that is so, then putting a small 'Tug' system on all of one's Capital ships
makes some sense. Spend 2 Mass and 6 points and your capital ship can carry a
10 Mass ship's boat.

Tug systems are most economical with low thrust ships. A 20 Mass Tug system on
a 2 Thrust FTL ship requires 25 Mass of Hull for the Hull plus 5 Mass for the
extra drive.
Total:  60 + 25 + 10 = 95
A 20 Mass Tug system on a 4 Thrust FTL ship requires 29 Mass of Hull for the
Hull plus 9 mass for the extra drive.
Total:  60 + 29 + 27 = 116
A 20 Mass Tug system on a 6 Thrust FTL ship requires 33 Mass of Hull for the
Hull plus 13 mass for the extra drive.
Total:  60 + 33 + 39 = 132
A 20 Mass Tug system on a 8 Thrust FTL ship requires 40 Mass of Hull for the
Hull plus 20 mass for the extra drive.
Total: 60 + 40 + 60 = 160

You get the greatest payoff, or at least, pay the smallest penalty,
for towing ships with a high thrust and/or streamlining.

For example: A 100 Mass Thrust 8 ship with Streamlining and 20 Structure
points and no FTL drive has 20 Mass left over for systems.

An FTL ship with 20 Mass in systems, Thrust 8, Streamlining and 20
Structure points would have to mass 133 (and 1/3).

The difference between the cost of the FTL version and the non-FTL
version is 3 times the mass difference, or 100 points.

(Streamlining cost 20% of mass, plus 2* Mass spent streamlining, right?)

Because shields also cost on the basis of a percentage of the ship's
mass, shields would be slightly more economical for a non-ftl ship
than an otherwise equally capable but larger ftl ship.

For example, a non-ftl ship Massing 100 might have the same amount of
structure and armor as an FTL ship Massing 120, but it would be cheaper
to put shields on the non-ftl version.

Recommended ship designs for use on towed ships:

Scout: The minimal size scout is significantly smaller and cheaper for
the non-ftl version.  A thrust 8 scout with 1 structure point
requires 2 Mass for the non-ftl version vs 3 mass for the ftl
version.  The more scouts you have the wider the scout-net you
can send out. (If useful scanning requires a Firecon, then you are comparing
Mass 3 Thrust 8 to Mass 4 Thrust 6 ships, or Mass 5 Thrust 8 ships)

Planetary interface craft:
Why pay for those over-priced hangars when you can just tow these
guys into the system? You may have significantly reduced firepower when they
are docked with their parent ship because they block the gunports, but nothing
is free...

Eggshells armed with hammers: The classic is the 10 Mass, 1 structure point,
Thrust 8 Long range Salvo rack ship.

Pursuit Cruiser: Thrust 8, 2 shields, Mass ~ 60. For those who want high speed
powerful
ships but don't want to pay so much.  Useful for in-system patrols,
pursuing, intercepting or reinforcing as the situation calls for.

In short, any ship class with ~50% of its mass in systems which cost as a
percentage of the ship's total mass are good candidates. Also, any ship
classes which will be exposed to significantly higher fire and therefore
losses. If you expect to lose 75% of your scout ships each engagement, you are
better off buying the cheapest possible scouts.

A while ago, I did some analysis showing that the less mass spent on engines
the larger the percentage of the remainder should be spent on armor. Our
Thrust 2 Tugs will probably have a significant percentage of their remaining
systems devoted to armor and structure.

A good pair could be a heavily armored Thrust 2 Carrier/Tug paired with
an escorting Pursuit Cruiser.

Example Pursuit Cruiser: Mass 60 Thrust 8 12 Structure 4 Armor 2 Shields ADAF
2 Fire Cons
9 Beam-1s

or: 2 Fire Cons
2 Pulse Torpedos (with extra arcs) or Beam-3s
remaining mass PDAFs, no ADAF

> Does the Fleet book rules cover tugs? I haven't seen anything (which

It doesn't specifically, but you could use the general guidelines given in FT
(pg 27) of triple cost drives allowing for an equal mass to be carried.

> Sean Bayan Shoonmaker wrote:

> >Does the Fleet book rules cover tugs? I haven't seen anything (which

Um... you'll have to re-read FTFB p.8, "Tugs and Tenders", I think. I
can't see any real reason to build a tender, though (unless you need it
to re-arm small ships) - a Tug is *much* more efficient.

Regards,