Figure Casting Question

The list is quite so I thought I'd ask a question.

How does one go about casting figures, either with metal, or by resin or
something else, from an existing model? I have a very old, out of production,
never to see light again model I would like to copy. I was just wondering,
hypothetically of course, how you would go about copying such a figure.

Hypothetically, one could make a two part mold using RTV or the 1-1
material
from Tapp or Micro-mark.

Michael Brown

[quoted original message omitted]

Try:

http://www.ravensforgeminiatures.com/faq20413.html

It's a moldmaking and casting FAQ. Most of your questions should be answered
there.

--Binhan

> -----Original Message-----

Hi Allan,

> How does one go about casting figures, either with metal, or by resin

I've had to cast bits and pieces in the past - custom designed or very
OOP
parts - and have had moderate success with a 2 part RTV mould, casting
in both lead (melted old figures) and plastic.

If you're going to try plastic, you'll have to play a lot, and try using
something like the Alumalite casting plastic that sets up hard enough to
demould in about 5 minutes. I did a concept model of a laptop computer back in
design school, and created all the keys using this stuff and it worked really
well. It is very tough, but can be worked (sanded, drilled, filed) easily, and
gives great detail. As I said, it sets up hard quite
quickly - which is a LOT easier to work with than the stuff that takes
12 or 24 hours before you can demould. For hobby casting, 5 minutes is a whole
lot easier when doing figures in batches and only a single mould is available.
There are two problems with this stuff, I found. The first is that you don't
have much "pot time" with the mixed material before it
starts to harden - only about 30 seconds - which means you have to pour
fast - not so good if you have big parts.  The second is that unlike
spin casting, in which there is quite a bit of centri(fugal? pidal? I always
get that mixed up) force squeezing air trapped "under" the poured metal out of
the mould through very small holes cut at the end of gun barrels and other
projecting bits (hence those very thin "streamers" of metal you sometimes see
on figures off the top of their head, or toes, or gun or wherever), with hand
poured plastic, you're much more likely to get trapped air and bubbles in the
details of the figure.

If you hand pour lead/pewter (which you should do outdoors or in a very
well ventilated area... you can melt the lead on a hotplate, but it gives of
some nasty vapours), you'll get better results with infantry type figures or
stuff with lots of complicated detail. The Alumalite material can reproduce
any detail that lead can, but the lead gets into the mould better... I think
what happens is that the very hot lead causes trapped
air to expand greatly, and is more likely to escape because of it -
rather than the plastic which just traps a bubble. You can, as I suggested,
cut very small holes in your mould at the end of "protruding bits", and hot
lead will force the air out these holes.  We use a pin vice/microdrill
to
create these holes - small enough that when you're finished drilling
them through the RTV, it seems to close over them so you can't even see where
they are.

RTV itself isn't all that hard to work with. It is nice to have a vacuum
chamber to "degas" RTV (remove trapped air bubbles), but who has a vacuum
chamber? I get around this by being very careful when I set up the mould in
the first place... Pour each half of the mould so that any trapped air will
tend to rise up off the figure, and bubbles trapped in the RTV will not
actually impact the figure itself.

Be prepared that if you do this home casting, you won't get as good a
result as a spin-cast figure.

Also, don't be surprised if the figure you get (if you use metal) is a wee bit
smaller than the master. Lead will shrink a few percent, and the resulting
figure might be a bit smaller if you stand it next to the original.

Anyway, check out that FAQ someone posted... and feel free to ask questions:)

I've done this a bunch of times and it seems to work ok for certain types of
things. Obviously you have to be careful about busting someone's copyrights,
but home casting can be a quite satisfying thing once you play with it a few
times and get experience to work the bugs out...

> On Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:04:38 -0600, "B Lin" <lin@rxkinetix.com> wrote:

> Try:

Thanks to everyone, particularly Binhan and Adrian.

The figures that I am thinking about are the old 15mm Traveller grav tank and
the 15mm Traveller grav APC. I have three tanks and one APC, purchased about
20 years ago. They haven't been produced for a while, and I would love to have
some more for my 15mm SG2 forces.

Once again, thanks all!

> The figures that I am thinking about are the old 15mm Traveller grav

Are these flat across the bottom? With separate turrets on the tank? My memory
is fuzzy on these...

However, if I'm right, these are the kind of things fairly easily done with
resin: nice gradual slope, thin on top, wider on the bottom. You aren't that
concerned with detail on the underside, right?

The_Beast

Hi everybody. I'm new.

I know of a really nice article/website that shows step by step how to
cast. Even talks about different materials, where to get it, etc. If you like,
I'll dig it up.

David M.

> -----Original Message-----
My
> memory is fuzzy on these...

On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 07:54:54 -0700, "David Mihail" <dmihail2@cox.net>
wrote:

> Hi everybody. I'm new.

Hi, David. Welcome to the list.

Yes, I'd be interested if you could find the URL!

What games do you play? Tell us a little about yourself.

> On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 09:07:27 -0500, devans@nebraska.edu wrote:

> Are these flat across the bottom? With separate turrets on the tank? My

These are really nice models, though the tank is better than the APC. The tank
is a four part model. The main hull is actually an anti-grav raft (I
remember that they sold this portion separately). It has nice gradual slopes.
The inside is cut out in a rectangle with some floorboard detail. The bottom
of
the raft isn't flat on the bottom, it has some detail (two big disk-like
things representing anti-grav drives, I'd imagine).

The second piece is a part that fit on the raft's opening and has a ring for
the turret to sit on. The turret is the third piece. Like the hull it is very
smooth with not a lot of detail work on it (but very cool looking in spite of
this). The fourth piece is the gun, which fits into the forward notch on the
turret.

The APC is different. It came in six pieces. It's long and boxy looking. The
hull is in two parts that you glue together. There are two doors, one for each
side of the hull, a gun for the front of the vehicle and a small turreted gun
for the top. Again, lots of gradual slopes, not a lot of detail.

> However, if I'm right, these are the kind of things fairly easily done

Correct. There is some detail on the underside, but you never see it when
playing the game. It should work well with resin. I have seen resin for sale
in Michael's and Hobby Lobby. Would this stuff work for making models?

> Correct. There is some detail on the underside, but you never see it

I think this might be the 'clear' stuff. Also, I don't think they sell the
RTV mould making kits. You're supposed to use simply-shaped moulds for
embedding items in the resin. Think domed paper weights.

I believe you COULD use it, but it's not necessarily as sturdy as the
yellow/tan resins, I believe, and I think it's susceptible to
UV-breakdown.
Still, nice stealth tanks and APC's, no? ;->=

Of course, this has gone a bit astray; I haven't fully read the cited sites
to know if I should merely state RTFM. ;->=

The_Beast

There is a company on the web www.aceresin.com that sells resin, rtv rubber
for molds, and even a starter kit which has all you need to start casting. I
used their stuff years ago to duplicate scratchbuilt parts for an army of 28mm
figures. The stuff is very easy to work with, and I seem to remember a 1 or 2
page manual that came with the starter kit that had enough info to get
started.
-Dave
**********
The Death Star is secure. There is no rebel attack. Truly, I can say there
are, in fact, no rebels anywhere. The Emperor, praise Allah, will rule a
thousand years.
Also, they are committing suicide - if there were rebels
which there are not. Lies!
-Grand Moff Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf, Imperial Minister of Information
Long, long ago in a galaxy far, far away. (currently on administrative leave)
**********
[quoted original message omitted]

Check out Tapp plastic or Micromark. I've used the Tapp 1-1 it sets in
about 3 minutes (depending on temperature and humidity). Sounds like this
would m work for you. The Tapp mold making material needs to set for @ a week,
but it is
also a 1-1 mixture.  I have trench lines and such that I made in clay.
Next in line are some castle wall sections.

Michael Brown

[quoted original message omitted]

Besides the Micro-Mark brands, Smooth-On has some good stuff in the mold
material and 1 to 1 plastics.
http://www.smooth-on.com/

Kirk

Webelos Leader-Pack 23
Troop Chairman-Troop 23
Coosa District Activity Chairman-NWGABSA
Mechanical Designer Wargamer

http://hometown.aol.com/arbron/ArbronMain.html

> >Hi everybody. I'm new.

thank you
> Yes, I'd be interested if you could find the URL!
Woohoo! Only took me 5 minutes to find it. Here ya go...
http://www.hirstarts.com/casting/advanced.html

The bottom of the page takes you to his products page. Lots of neat stuff,
complete with pictures.

> What games do you play? Tell us a little about yourself.
Mostly played RPGs (AD&D and about a dozen others). Started playing Battletech
and Star Fleet Battles in '90; found Full Thrust in '92 and played that til
the end of '94. The Navy kind of got me out of playing, but I've been slowly
getting back in for the last 2.5 years. Now I play a bit of Warhammer 40K
(what a horrible rules set... but I like the story and the models). I recently
got a new copy of Full Thrust, and picked up FB1 & FB2, and also picked up
Stargrunt 2. I really like the SG2 rules, but haven't gotten to play the game
yet. I'm also thinking about trying out Babylon 5 Wars. Still looking for that
perfect starship game... (I've enjoyed all the ones I've tried, but I'm
looking for The One)

> >Correct. There is some detail on the underside, but you never see it

Those places also sell a bush on latex rubber for molds. It would work for 1
piece simple molds where the other side is flat. I have some and plan to use
it whenever I scratchbuild some ships.

Other than that clear resin, there are some other inexpensive options for
making the minis.

Durham's Rock Hard Water Putty (http://www.waterputty.com/) is available
pretty cheap at most hardware and home improvement stores in the US at around
$6 for 5 pounds and it is supposed to be much harder than plaster. Also Dental
plaster if you can find it. Online you have to get 50 pounds or more at a time
but you might have a local dental supply store where you can get less.

An interesting place for more information on these materials and one piece
mold casting is the website for Hirst Arts (http://www.hirstarts.com/)
who sell molds were you can cast your own bricks to make castles and other
buildings - think of it as making your own LEGOs for fantasy wargaming
buildings.  The do now have some Sci-Fi molds like this one for a
station
(http://www.hirstarts.com/station/station.html)

.....wait, looks like new listee David Mihail just posted a link to this
site too :-)

Actually, here are some science fiction style corridors I've made from the
Hirst Arts Bricks. They still need to be painted, I just haven't come up with
a color scheme I like.

Randy Wolfmeyer Dept. of Physics Washington University
http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~rwwolfme

> On Thu, 17 Apr 2003, Dean Gundberg wrote:

> Durham's Rock Hard Water Putty (http://www.waterputty.com/) is
who
> sell molds were you can cast your own bricks to make castles and other

And with that I meant to include a web address:

http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~rwwolfme/projects/corridors/index.html

These corridors were made with the Station Builder mold from Hirst Arts.

Randy Wolfmeyer Dept. of Physics Washington University
http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~rwwolfme

> On Fri, 18 Apr 2003, Randy W. Wolfmeyer wrote:

> Actually, here are some science fiction style corridors I've made from

Well, I've seen some of the Hirst stuff up close, thought it wasn't worth
the effort as it was all tile-by-tile or brick-by-brick, but those
corridors may make a believer out of me.  Something about block-by-block
keeps it from being to fiddly for my tastes. ;->=

I'm wondering, though, if you couldn't get by for most of the pieces with
various shapes of wooden molding and a miter box.

Natch, I've been impressed by your work before. I'm noticing we've not seen an
update on the grav tank in almost a year. Simply tired of it and shoved into a
corner? Story too painful to discuss? Just never got around to newer piccies?

I'd purely like to know if'n it's seen table top time! (Yes, some of us
Nebraskans actually talk like this, though you get a lot more of it in MO.
;->= )

The_Beast

I've been making some D&D terrain with the Hirst stuff. Very nice and well
thought out. He also sells stuff for making your own molds and gives very good
instructions on his website. He doesn't even seem to have a problem with you
taking 3 of his walls, stacking them together, and then having you make a mold
of the conglomeration.

Overall nice stuff and well worth the money and time.

Roger Books

> On 19-Apr-03 at 07:31, devans@nebraska.edu (devans@nebraska.edu) wrote:

> On 19-Apr-03 at 07:31, devans@nebraska.edu (devans@nebraska.edu) wrote:

It's actually quite fun, and kind of becomes an addiction. Once you have one
mold and build a couple of simple buildings, you start thinking about what you
could make if you just had this one other mold, and it continues until you've
spent far more on molds than you ever would have on buying pieces of terrain.
But you feel justified because its still do it yourself.

> I'm wondering, though, if you couldn't get by for most of the pieces

Yeah, the hover tank.
(http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~rwwolfme/projects/tank/index.html)

I still plan on finishing it. It's cut up in about a dozen pieces because I
decided I would try casting it. It's been a trial and error kind of thing.
I've got good molds for the top and bottom of the main hull and
the engine ports, a semi-good mold for the turret and have had a hell of
a
time getting the main gun and the mini-turret to work out (two part
molds are harder to pull off than I thought). I've already gone through one
sampler of RTV from smooth-on, and the stuff starts getting expensive
after that.

I haven't really done much work on it since January, mostly because of school
work, and a trip to Ireland, buying and casting Hirst molds, etc. I should
take some picture of the current work so far and put them on my website. Maybe
people will have some suggestions as to how I can finish it up. I know my wife
would be happy if I actually finished one of the many projects I'm currently
working on.

> I'd purely like to know if'n it's seen table top time! (Yes, some of

That all depends on whether you live in Missouri, or Missoura.

Hey, y'uns stop talking about people from Missoura that way.

I've never heard an if'n or a purely but cringed from the y'uns many times,
especially when I caught my 8 year old brother saying it.

Roger Books (No, not a Missouri native, just graduated from Ava high school.)

On 21-Apr-03 at 15:48, Randy W. Wolfmeyer (rwwolfme@artsci.wustl.edu)
wrote:
> On 19-Apr-03 at 07:31, devans@nebraska.edu (devans@nebraska.edu)
wrote:
> > I'd purely like to know if'n it's seen table top time! (Yes, some of

I just live in Saint Louis... <grin>

On Mon, 21 Apr 2003 14:45:58 -0500 (CDT) "Randy W. Wolfmeyer"
> <rwwolfme@artsci.wustl.edu> writes:
<snip>
> That all depends on whether you live in Missouri, or Missoura.