Now, I may be wrong on this but fighters seem a lot, lot worse than they used
to be.
I've not used fighters that often, and never in large amounts, but the way I
read it is as follows:
Fighter squadrons attack a enemy within 6MU, the enemy ship assigns its PDS
and other defences.
Rerolls apply for PDS fire on a '6'
> This is the first bit I don't use. I like the re-rolls against ships
Now, the morale rules are OK, I used to use these and have the roll before the
attack run is announced, so a reduced strength squadron is unlikely to attack
an enemy with functioning PDS systems. And as per new ADFC rules, if they
don't declare an attack run, they cannot be attacked.
FB2 suggests the morale rule is used after the PDS fire has been made. This
means that any casualties that were inflicted by PDS fire reduce the chance of
the remaining fighters making their attack run.
I know I am allowed to make my own house rules for this, but most of you out
there have played around with fighters more than me, is this how you guys play
them?
If this is they way they are played, then if you only have 1 or 2 fighter
squadrons per side, I can see them getting blown to bits without inflicting
much damage
Hello Paul and the list,
I played with fighters last weekend for the first time. They scared the heck
outta me! I have been teaching my nephew and my brother-in-law FT, and
we added the fighter rules to the mix when my nephew chose a NAC CVL and
escort (1500 pts FB1) against a NSL task force (same points, FB1). His four
fighter groups carried the day for him. The battle would have been close other
than the fighters.
The NACs lost 11 fighters out of the 24 deployed. If the NSL had not been
able to re-roll, only one group would have been destroyed. With FB
ships,
the re-roll needs to be implemented IMHO because there is a lack of PDS
compared to many custom-designed ships that I have seen.
As for the morale rule, we played it as FB2. The NACs never failed a morale
check, even with the one fighter! In their first run, all four groups attacked
a Maria von Burgund battleship. One group lost a fighter. The MvB was severely
slapped around. The next run saw two groups maintain pressure
on the MvB while two others swooped down on a Waldburg/M missile
destroyer. The destroyer was destroyed having inflicted no losses to the
fighters. The MvB meanwhile took another lashing. The ship had already lost a
PDS in the first volley, and now it lost two more. Worse for it was when the
NAC capitals fired, they forced another threshold roll. This time the MvB lost
its command bridge for two turns and life support would fail in four turns.
With one damage control party left, it was only a matter or time before the
MvB became a mission kill. The NAC birds moved on with 2 of their 6 combat
endurance points left. The MvB never did manage to repair life support, and
had to be abandoned. The NAC groups came together again against a Richthofen
battlecruiser. Between three PDS and two C1 beams, the BC managed to finish
off a group of three fighters and kill four out of five in another group. Two
groups came in untouched. And the solitary fighter did not fail his
morale check either! After that attack run, the fighters were devoid of CE
points and were going to return to the carrier. The battle itself I think
lasted another turn or two after their last run. The NSL opted to FTL with
their remaining vessels (a Maximilian BC and a Markgraf CH). The NAC had their
CVL and two CEs (one on it's last leg)
The morale rules and PDS re-rolls are the only two things keeping
fighters from dominating the game. Each standard fighter group is equivalent
to 6
beam dice. Do your fighters get to re-roll, Paul? I have only run one
game with fighters, but my opinion is that even with morale checks and PDS
re-rolls as they are, fighters are dayum powerful! I know my
brother-in-law
thinks so! My nephew's comment was, "Why didn't you teach us about these
before?"
So while I am certainly not an expert, my first taste of fighters tells me
that at least against FB1 and similarly designed fleets, PDS re-rolls
and
post-PDS morale checks are required to keep fighters in line.
I have a question for the list. Suppose these four fighters groups are
attacking a MvB. The BB opts to use PDS against two unscathed groups and
leave two half-strength ones alone. PDS removes a couple fighters from
each of the fresh groups. Do only they roll morale checks since they were the
only groups under attack? Or do all four groups roll checks because they are
all diminished? My first thought is that only the groups under fire roll, but
I'd like to hear what y'all have ta say.
Bill
In a message dated 7/13/00 7:52:04 AM Central Daylight Time,
> pg70201@glaxowellcome.co.uk writes:
<< Now, I may be wrong on this but fighters seem a lot, lot worse than they
used to be.
I've not used fighters that often, and never in large amounts, but the way I
read it is as follows:
Fighter squadrons attack a enemy within 6MU, the enemy ship assigns its PDS
and other defences.
Rerolls apply for PDS fire on a '6'
> This is the first bit I don't use. I like the re-rolls against ships
How
many other people don't use re-rolls for fighters?
Now, the morale rules are OK, I used to use these and have the roll before the
attack run is announced, so a reduced strength squadron is unlikely to attack
an enemy with functioning PDS systems. And as per new ADFC rules, if they
don't declare an attack run, they cannot be attacked.
FB2 suggests the morale rule is used after the PDS fire has been made. This
means that any casualties that were inflicted by PDS fire reduce the chance of
the remaining fighters making their attack run.
I know I am allowed to make my own house rules for this, but most of you out
there have played around with fighters more than me, is this how you guys play
them?
If this is they way they are played, then if you only have 1 or 2 fighter
squadrons per side, I can see them getting blown to bits without inflicting
much damage
> [quoted text omitted]
> Grogan, Paul wrote:
> Now, I may be wrong on this but fighters seem a lot, lot worse than
Depends entirely on how you used to interpret the MT fighter morale
rules :-/ In FT2, fighters used to be *gods* unless the enemy ships
flew fast enough to outrun them...
> Fighter squadrons attack a enemy within 6MU, the enemy ship assigns
Yep. As do the fighters' own weapons (except Torp fighters, that is) if they
press the attack home.
> This is the first bit I don't use. I like the re-rolls against ships
And similarly, an *un*lucky PD roll (or lucky fighter attack roll) can
be devastating as well - though usually not for the fighter player :-/
> Now, the morale rules are OK, I used to use these and have the roll
Sounds like a house rule; the MT fighter morale rules as printed don't require
the enemy to have functioning PDS systems in order to force a morale check.
> And as per new ADFC rules, if they don't declare an attack run, they
Correct. Well, as per the 2-year-old ADFC rules for the humans at
least; all the alien races in FB2 have weapons able to kill fighters which
don't declare attack runs (KV scatterguns, SV Interceptor Pods,
Phalon PBLs - though the last one only kills if the fighters forget to
run away or try to shoot the PB down but fail).
> FB2 suggests the morale rule is used after the PDS fire has been
Yep.
> I know I am allowed to make my own house rules for this, but most of
It is how most of those playtesters who responded when I brought the
question up play them, at least :-/ I've done it both ways over the
years, but I prefer checking morale after PD fire.
> If this is they way they are played, then if you only have 1 or 2
Depends entirely on the size of the battle, and what targets they attack. I've
seen a single DD wipe out two attacking squadrons and take
virtually no damage itself, but I've also seen last-ditch fighter
attacks destroy enemy capitals and reverse the course of entire battles
<shrug>
Regards,
> BDShatswell@aol.com wrote:
> I have a question for the list. Suppose these four fighters groups
The MT fighter morale rules only say that "...roll a single die before making
an attack with any fighter group that has lost one or more members;...".
Nothing about those losses having to be taken during the current attack or the
current turn, so all four groups check.
Regards,
> If this is they way they are played, then if you only have 1 or 2
This _is_ the way they are played.
And you're right, 1 or 2 fighter squadrons will get creamed by any significant
PDS net. You need to saturate, with massed fighters and/or missiles
coming in simultaneously.
But... they're still useful in small amounts. To keep off the enemy SMs for
one thing. To disrupt an opponent's 5-squadron strike so it's a
3-squadron strike
which will be hit badly by PDS. But their greatest use is in finishing off
cripples