Before getting too deep into the way the rules interact with wet navy
carriers, perhaps some thoughts on what space fighters would do might help.
First, space fighters do not require a launch deck, or even a catapault. They
could be pushed away from the carrier and drift far enough to turn on their
engines, if worst
came to worst. Probably some sort of low-energy catapault, perhaps just
a compressed air blast or something, could be used. Their desired vector is
probably quite
different from the vector of the carrier, and a high-power launch is as
likely to impart velocity in the wrong direction as the right.
When a fighter is returning to the carrier, it is doing one of three things
(1) the fight is over and it's coming home (2) the fight is continuing and it
needs more gas
and/or ammo, or (3) it's got a hole in it. For (1), time is generally
not a problem, so let's skip it.
The next-easiest is (3): if the fighter pilot is wounded or the fighter
cannot be controlled safely for some reason, it should not be allowed to
approach the carrier at all. Either the pilot is in an airtight environment
(even a suit) or he's dead; if
necesssary I would image a one-man taxi would pop out to bring medical
and/or rescue
gear to a fighter parked a safe distance from the ship, or proceeding on a
different vector. If the pilot has a leaky environment he's gonna be dead by
the time he gets
into air anyway. The carrier will not want any highly-explosive weaponry
and
high-velocity fighters near it, even if they are friendly, unless they
are under reliable control.
If the fighter is incapable of fighting because of damage, it is extremely
unlikely that it can be repaired in time to get back into the fight, in which
case it should be shunted off to the side and dealt with later.
Now for (2). In this case the fighter is capable of continuing the fight, and
merely needs a refill. The key issue here is, as in a racing pit, time.
I envision one floor of the carrier have opening walls. Fighters fly
into rearm/refill
bays from one side (or both, depending on your technology), get their refill,
and blast right on out the other side. Damaged ships are parked in a different
area which leads to the repair bay, and can be cycled into the carrier at a
slower, safer pace.
The cargo deck is located under the launch/receiving deck, with
elevators (or open holes with air blasts for power, perhaps) feeding fighters
up for launch. For safety
reasons, there might well be launch-only bays, to make sure that no-one
tries to land into a bay that another fighter is just elevating into.
When a battle starts, the walls fall open and every fighter on the launch deck
launches clear. Immediately the next set of fighters is elevated into the
launch bays to launch, etc etc until they all launch. Once fighters begin
returning for refills the process gets a bit more confusing, but not at all
unlikely for a military operation.
Since fighters can be moved without gravity and without time constraints after
the battle, a lot of the design considerations can be ignored. The key factors
for an FT tactical battle would therefore be the number of fighter bays
(=number of fighters launched in one wave), and the number of refill bays
(=turnaround time for reloads). On the strategic level, the number of repair
bays and their capacity will determine the number of damaged fitghters
available after a fight.
In a do-or-die assault, for example, the walls would fall off the entire
ship, and every fighter would be able to launch immediately andsimultaneously.
Could be quite a suprise to someone...
Jumping in here, you are both correct.
A mechanism needs to be in place to rescue fighter pilots and have a
reasonable chance of success. If not done their mission motivation is very low
(jihadic pilots excepted but the cost of training exceeds the value of a one
shot weapon).
On the other hand an out of control fighter ramming a carrier cannot be a good
thing. So I agree that they would not be let near Mother.
So there needs to be a way to recover pilots from crippled fighters (and crews
that escape the destruction of their vessels). This seems to be some sort of
Frigate or Corvette mission, something with plenty of speed (for rendezvous)
judicious armor (they will be conducting CSAR (Combat Search and
Rescue)) and room for some sort of recovery vehicle/large airlock
(either go and grab the stricken fighter or surround it with your ship then
close the door (different from the Carrier doing this as you specifically
design your MAW (Multi Aircraft Welcome) to be protected from damaged fighters
and if
you lose a CSAR Corvette/Frigate you have lost less than the Carrier.
This brings an interesting mission type into play, a small quick force trying
to locate the ELTs of pilot survival capsules as the main battle moves away.
The CSAR vessel would be protected by others (Most likely fighters as they
have a vested interest in it completing its mission) and would tend to dart
in, grab then run.
Just my $0.02
Bob Makowsky
[quoted original message omitted]
> At 3:49 PM +0900 6/7/01, Edward Lipsett wrote:
This runs contrary to everything that is held to be in Aviation Ops. You
always want your crews knowing that you will do every thing you can do to get
them home alive. Morale would be severely impacted by this. Given the nature
of space flight, an automated approach ala Harriers coming into land on a
carrier (Stopping first then landing) would be trivial.
> into air anyway. The carrier will not want any highly-explosive
As opposed to currently where those aircraft come in and practically crash
land into the decks with all of this nasty gear onboard. Armaments are safed
by use of safeties and fuzing. The only time you get major incidents is when
you have fire. Hard to have that in
space....
[snip]
> is located under the launch/receiving deck, with elevators (or open
Thats what the White shirts and LSO's are for. They control Aviation ops and
prevent aircraft from being put into the way of other aircraft. They control
activity on the deck. The Airboss controls them and the airspace around the
carrier.
> Edward lipsett
Wow, still over in Japan? I remember talking with you re that 2-3
years ago. How is Fukuoka? Whats Kitakyushu look like now? I heard they did
away with the street cars...
> At 11:20 AM -0300 6/7/01, Bob Makowsky wrote:
> On the other hand an out of control fighter ramming a carrier cannot be
Yes an out of control fighter yes. A damaged one coming into land, no. Look at
the number of aircraft that came in damaged during Vietnam flights. In the
case of carrier ops, why can the fighter not match speed with the carrier and
then be brought in with tugs even.
If the fighter's controls are jammed and cannot retro burn/maneuver.
He's not going near the carrier in the first place.
> So there needs to be a way to recover pilots from crippled fighters
I would assume that specialized ship's boats on a Carrier would accomplish
this task. Something like a Pinnance or small shuttle another 1 mass style
craft.
This would also handle space to ground missions nicely...
> This brings an interesting mission type into play, a small quick force
and
> would tend to dart in, grab then run.
Aye. Or even a planet side style mission.
> --- Bob Makowsky <rmako@coqui.net> wrote:
This would seem to be the job of a tractor beam wouldn't it? In ST and B5
anyway. In early B5, they had little grapples that would let a starfury
grapple small objects, or even pretty big ones.
The delta-v of an aircraft to a carrier and the potential kinetic energy
released on impact is considerably different than in space. For an aircraft,
the controller has to make a choice between dunking the aircraft (lost money)
and messing up his deck, but at the same time dunking the aircraft decreases
the chances of pilot survival (especially if pilot is wounded or ejection
systems damaged).
In space, the damaged fighter will be quite happy sitting somewhere and
waiting - won7t sink, and even if it does float away it would hardly get
lost. As long as the pilot can be gotten out, away from the carrier is safest.
What I meant by dead pilots was that it will take time to get a pilot from a
fighter into a pressurized environment, no matter how it's done. I figure
either he has a hole in his pressurization and will be dead very shortly, or
he can afford to wait five minutes for rescue to get there.
P.S. Fukuoka is still a large rural city, as always. Kitakyu is cleaner, but
still dead in the water. Little changes in a land where inertia is king.
> Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 10:40:52 -0400
If you direct the blast away from the COG of the carrier, the bay could be
designed to merely blow out the floor, which would be a piece of carrier shell
and totally irrelevant to combat
operations - not very goodstructurally, but in the middle of a firefight
that isn't an issue.
As far as the control and pilot issues, I did say that the deciding factor was
whether or not the fighter could be brought in under control.
As far as bringing damaged fighters into the bay, my assumption is that as
long as the crew is safe, the fighter should wait. There are bound to be more
fighters than bays, and the carrier will not want to tie up refill bays for
active fighters during combat. As I said, the damaged fighters won't sink, so
just let them wait until later.
> Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 13:55:56 -0400
<snip of otherwise excellent commentary>
Ryan,
I definitely agree. Fighters with minimal control would be brought near the
carrier for recovery by small craft/tugs. In control they land
normally. Once in a while the pilot thinks he has more control than he does
and there is some sort of crack up. That is what the good stories are made of
<G>.
Surface SAR is another good mission. Los, K'rrt and I did a good battle of a
pilot rescue as part of the gaming background of Los's Rot Hafen. Great stuff.
Bob Makowsky LCDR, USCG
HH-65A IP
SAR Pilot
[quoted original message omitted]