[fh] why justify? was Re: [OT]-Interstellar Trade: A new take

3 posts ยท May 9 2000 to May 11 2000

From: Thomas Anderson <thomas.anderson@u...>

Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 22:40:14 +0100 (BST)

Subject: [fh] why justify? was Re: [OT]-Interstellar Trade: A new take

> On Tue, 9 May 2000, Bren Mayhugh wrote:

> I have been following this thread for quite a long time and finally

> determinations of interstellar trade that we have forgotten one of the

> requirement of a good game and that is playablity.

no, we haven't; in fact, playability is one of the key reasons we're doing
this. now, you are of course utterly correct that a background for a space
wargame with no colonies or trade in space would be worthless and dumb, and
that for playability we need to say that these things exist. however, to some
people, there is a big difference between saying 'this is so because we want
it to be so' and 'this so so because of the following sensible reasons'. the
former (a) lacks the coherence and solidity that is characteristic of
involving, enjoyable fiction (future history is, ultimately, fiction of a
sort) and (b) makes it hard to fill in details
-
with a generating philosophy, details flow naturally from what has gone
before, but without one, you have to make everything up as you go along (c)
makes consistency difficult to attain (if there are no reasons for anything,
there are no reasons why things should be consistent, so you have to be extra
careful). what it comes down to is that many people
(including me) find an ad-hoc, unjustified future history deeply
unsatisfying.

> Sure, I know that interstellar trade would probably only be rare items

ah, now this reveals one of your unstated assumptions - that any
'realistic' Future Economy (to coin a phrase - by analogy to Future
History; we're really working in the wider domain of Future Humanities
:)
) has to be thin and unappealing. i sincerely believe this is untrue, because
(a) i want a rich, tasty FE, (b) i'm really good at making things up and
making them sound plausible and (c) there are lots of other people like me
working on it too.

> I know that I might get flamed for this message,

i strongly hope you don't, and in fact i doubt you will - we've all seen
this argum... er, discussion in the past:). i also hope you don't take this
post as a flame!

> but to make a good gaming arena (aka the different nations

this is indeed the heart of the matter - we need to generate a
high-quality FH/FE which supports good gameplay. we need a framework for
numerous, diverse, fractious star powers, with economically accessible combat
and a plethora of motivations for it. we need space colonies, space stations,
space trade, space freighters, space pirates, space navies, space explorers,
space politics, space bars (to keep the words separated, of course!), the
space kitchen sink.

> The reason that Faster-than-light drives were created was not for any

right. but if we can back the FTL drive up with some pseudo-scientific
bulls**t (PSB - learn to love it!), we feel happier and more
entertained.

> Sure, most colonies would be so expensive to start up and maintain for

well, then the point to start is to figure out good reasons why colonies
which generate trade are (a) cost-effective (in the long run) (b)
feasible to start. i'm sure the cognoscenti of the list can think of quite a
number (this discussion should, however, take place on the 'pedia list). my
favourite is to grow food for export to earth (Malthus amd all that) -
colonies start off agricultural and with small populations, then grow by
building up the local industry to reduce imports (this depends on
industrial set-up costs being low enough relative to shipping costs).
once colonies become worth seizing from your enemies, Bob's your uncle. some
people don't like this because they don't see humanity's demand for food
outstripping the earth's ability to supply within the next few centuries, or
because they favour another alternative. rest assured, though, there are a
bunch of good ideas, and we are working on them all the time. science fiction
hasn't been colonising space for the last century or so without any
justfication, you know!

anyway, i'll finish by suggesting we pro-detailers write a 'justifiers'
manifesto', and post it either on the GZG-L website or the 'pedia, so
that if anyone wonders why we feel the need to do it, we can tell them. i
suggest we start as follows "A spectre is haunting the Tuffleyverse -
the spectre of Justification...".

tom a

From: Laserlight <laserlight@q...>

Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 19:11:55 -0400

Subject: Re: [fh] why justify? was Re: [OT]-Interstellar Trade: A new take

> no, we haven't; in fact, playability is one of the key reasons

Which can be PSB, as long as it sounds good. "Hey, our ships use Zero Point
Energy drives, so of course they're more maneuverable."
> this is indeed the heart of the matter - we need to generate a

Um, you're getting carried away here.  :-)

> anyway, i'll finish by suggesting we pro-detailers write a

You're elected, go to it. You have till tomorrow night for a
first draft. :-)

From: Thomas Anderson <thomas.anderson@u...>

Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 02:13:27 +0100 (BST)

Subject: Re: [fh] why justify? was Re: [OT]-Interstellar Trade: A new take

> On Tue, 9 May 2000, Laserlight wrote:

> >no, we haven't; in fact, playability is one of the key reasons

precisely.

> > the space kitchen sink.

space carrier bags, space teapots, space electrical sockets...

[tom is carried away by orderlies]

> >anyway, i'll finish by suggesting we pro-detailers write a

based on my post. see:

http://members.xoom.com/gzg_l/justify/

this is a public website, so feel free to go in and add stuff (arguments
justifying space colonisation would be a good start).

tom