Okay, let's start creating this new, non-Earth-related setting.
1. Since the GZGverse is Cinematic, let's make this one Vector movement only.
2. We don't want to need new ship-design software. Therefore ships use
current or soon-to-be-current (UN, ORC) Human tech systems, although not
all tech is necessarily available to every nation, and some (eg perhaps
fighters) may not be available at all.
3. Ships of the various nations will be represented by GZG minis. This gives
us at least ten design philosophies available (NAC NSL ESU FSE IF ORC
UN IJN NI KV). I'm deliberately leaving out the bio-tech SV and PhC
ships at the moment, plus nations like the ScanFed and CalTex who have a
limited range of types avalable. Note that this does not mean that we're using
ten
nations--it could be fewer (Foo oldstyle ships use ESU minis, while the
new designs use NAC) or more (Qux doesn't produce its own ships, buys from Foo
and Bar instead).
and by creation are you assuming that this is going to
be a strictly ground-up fleshing out of the existing
fleets a'la GZG? with no human assumptions? I've been lax on keeping up with
the thread, but is there no
room for re-interpreting the existing lines _AND_
allegiances?
just coz i like my IJSF ships and the NI already have
the Davidian Drives...;-)
--- "laserlight@quixnet.net" <laserlight@quixnet.net>
wrote:
> Okay, let's start creating this new,
> and by creation are you assuming that this is going to
Human, just not Earth-based. Earth could perhaps be in the background,
as in Honorverse, if desired, but my own preference is not to have it.
you'd prefer to have this be entirely free-form tehn,
with no existing trappings to hang it on. Thats fine.
though the desire to see a Firefly-class ship....what
ami saying? the gorram thing ain't armed and is
apparently a missile-sponge.
--- "laserlight@quixnet.net" <laserlight@quixnet.net>
wrote:
> >and by creation are you assuming that this is going
> On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 12:35:35PM -0500, laserlight@quixnet.net wrote:
If you don't want it to happen here, I'll be happy to host a distinct mailing
list, as always.
> 3. Ships of the various nations will be represented by GZG minis. This
I suggest that you try to recruit "nation owners" and "navy owners" (might be
the same people) to take responsibility for a section of the world design.
Preferably people who have more spare time than I do just at the moment,
though I'll probably kibitz.
(Remembering that the ESU at least has two quite distinct miniature
styles...)
As universe owner (congratulations), you should I think be wary of powers that
are too close to current or historical Terran nations or
political philosophies - Nazis/Commies/Revolutionary Frenchmen In Space
have all been more or less done.
R
> Okay, let's start creating this new, non-Earth-related setting.
Let's postulate a few high tech First Tier powers, competing with each
other for access to one or more lower-tech Second Tier powers.
Analogous situations would be the English, French, and Dutch trying to get
past the Spanish navy to the Americas ca 1660; or England, France, Portugal,
and Denmark trying to open ports in India ca 1770; or England, Germany,
Belgium, Italy, Osmani Sultanate, etc grabbing parts of Africa ca 1880.
Well now, are we supposed to be original, or were those just examples of First
Teir powers looking at Second Teir powers...?
> --- Laserlight <laserlight@quixnet.net> wrote:
> > Okay, let's start creating this new, non-Earth-related setting.
In my own creations, I tend to do away with Earth also... I realized that I
just don't know enough about the various nations, and I don't want to tick off
someone who is from there...When I make it up, I can say anything I want.
I like the human angle. Maybe aliens (read -- non-humans) later.
Donald Hosford
> laserlight@quixnet.net wrote:
> and by creation are you assuming that this is going to
Laserlight spaketh:
> Let's postulate a few high tech First Tier powers, competing with each
Might I suggest that before you start creating individual powers, you get some
kind of consensus on a general theme.
So far, Laserlight has suggested Vector-only, No Earch, with a
European-Colonial-Era-ish flavour.
(His first example is somewhat difficult, however. The Europeans of the
1660's had magic/sci-fi level technology relative to the
basically-stoneage
population of the Americas. In a sci-fi setting, that level of
disparity might be interesting, but not for the second tier powers...) But
that is really besides the point. The "flavour" is perfectly good. How about
some others?
What about Reconquista Spain? European hungry growing power fighting
against technologically equal/superior but fading Moors; the "Moorish"
analogue could have a fading empire with some "top notch" technology, but
that in moderate numbers, backed up by lower-tech "slave" forces (ah-la
the Janissary forces of the... who had them? The Ottoman empire? Was it John's
Eastern Romans?). The "European" analogue might have lower tech, but greater
numbers and convictions. Or something.:)
Anyway, I think it might be easier to put together a "general overview" rather
than jumping in to starting individual powers, and trying to come up with how
they fit together later.
Also, how are you going to mediate conflict between the powers? I don't mean
that we're not quite capable of having a good discussion to work out the
details, but if someone wants *their* power Y to have a good fight and victory
over X, but there is another person championing X who doesn't like that, we
get spirited debate. That might be a good thing:) Certainly spirited debate
can drive creativity. But the alternative seems to me to be either everyone
makes up their own "conflict" powers (so you're not just creating one, but
several), or perhaps there is some kind of mediation process. Or something.
Maybe creative group discussion will just work it all out!
Ok, my $0.02. It's late and my poor little mind isn't coming up with a bunch
of creative suggestions for how to resolve this, if it is even a problem...
:)
On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 03:05:47 -0500, Adrian Johnson <adrian@stargrunt.ca>
wrote:
> What about Reconquista Spain? European hungry growing power fighting
Ottomans. And the Yeni-ceri were excellent troops. It was the rest
of the Ottoman troops that were what might charitably be described as ash and
trash, but lots of them.
> Well now, are we supposed to be original, or were those just examples
A description of the situation, not necessarily a description of the nations.
If someone wants to use 1660 England as the basis for their nation, and they
make enough changes that I can't tell what the source is,
then that's fine -- that's what they mean by "filing the serial numbers
off". For instance, whoever wants to do Sword Worlds can lift the culture and
such, but should make some changes and shouldn't call it "Sword Worlds" or
"Blade Worlds" anything too close. And please don't name a character Rob S
Pierre....
Adrian said:
> Laserlight spaketh:
"spake" or "spoke" or "speaketh", but not "spaketh"
> (His first example is somewhat difficult, however. The Europeans of
I was thinking more of the colonials, in that case. Spain wanted to keep its
colonies as captive markets, so she could sell manufactured goods at high
prices and buy raw materials at low prices. England did the same thing WRT the
New World. In both cases, the colonists were willing to deal with smugglers
and buccaneers, contrary to the home country's law.
> might be interesting, but not for the second tier powers...)
I'm assuming that the First Tier powers will be selling weapons and such to
the Second Tier, and will have limited manpower in theater. Analogues would be
the Sikhs, or the various African tribes that the Zanzibari Arabs supplied
around 1850, or the British and the Eyptian army in that same period.
> What about Reconquista Spain?
That could fit in too.
> Also, how are you going to mediate conflict between the powers?
Well, we could find a volunteer, preferably a thoughtful Canadian type, to run
a detailed campaign game...I have a vict^h^h^h candidate in mind. Or we could
find some pushy, stubborn, eccentric cuss to read over designers' input and
then make decisions by fiat. Or we could come other with some other solution.
Let's get the nations designed first, before we worry about how they bump into
each other.
I think a framework of the overall milieu would help.
I'm thinking of a "Long Night" or Far Future/Vast Distances Scenario to
explain the separation from Earth/GZGverse.
Once we have the basic framework we can build our nations.
Are there any takers?
Mike
[quoted original message omitted]
Still kind of partial to Fred Saberhagens' Berserker-vers
It's not quite as developed as other milieu, gives you room to play about....)
Mike said:
> I'm thinking of a "Long Night" or Far Future/Vast Distances Scenario
I wouldn't say that we need to explain it. But you could always say "Earth?
That's just a myth."
One thing we do need, though, is FTL mechanism. I'd say jump points, sort of
like Alderson points except covering a larger volume. It's most efficient to
arrive at the center but you can modify your arrival
position off to one side by quite a bit -- enough that a fixed station
can't guard the entire arrival aread.
Laserlight, thinking *farrr* too much about sheep to be healthy, said:
> Adrian said:
Says you.
English is an evolving and growing language.
I just chose to evolve it a bit.
;-P
> Also, how are you going to mediate conflict between the powers?
<braying with laughter>
Um, yes. I see.
Uh huh.
I vote for TomB. That would be *funny*.
;-)
> , to run a detailed campaign game...I have a vict^h^h^h candidate
...while I think we may want to consider the reasons they're bumping, or the
mechanisms by which they bump, to be useful during the design process.
Oh the other had, it is your universe (congratulations from me too, by the
way).
I'm revising my vote. I vote for "decisions by fiat".
:)
More efficient that way.
***************************************
> --- Adrian Johnson <adrian@stargrunt.ca> wrote:
> Says you.
Wait... this is Laserlight.... shouldn't that be "Says ewe."?
> English is an evolving and growing language.
Evolve it if you must, but I personally choose to abusify it.
> Um, yes. I see.
Don't we have to find his soul before he can be judged.. I mean, be
judge....?
> ...while I think we may want to consider the reasons they're bumping,
Actually I think it'd be better to get them to the point where they're going
to bump... then craft the timeline from there...
I agree on the framework. A good simple one should help things along.
This brings up some good questions:
Have we desided weather the Earth is going to be in the setting or not? If
Earth is present (somewhere), does that mean the "local" nations are just lost
colonies? Could this setting be in the same setting as the GZG one? (Just on
the other side of the galaxy or something?)
I like the idea of the long night. It would explain why there are
civilizations all over. Some just recovered quicker.
Donald Hosford
> Katrina Brown wrote:
> I think a framework of the overall milieu would help.
Are we going to have a single FTL mechanism?
Or will the more advanced nations have better/faster ones?
> Laserlight wrote:
> One thing we do need, though, is FTL mechanism. I'd say jump points,
This would significantly raise the cost to "armor" a jump point. :-)
> Have we desided weather the Earth is going to be in the setting
No Earth.
> Could this setting be in the same setting as the GZG one? (Just
The other side of the galaxy is a loooooong way away. It can't be "colonies
that set off from Earth using human FTL tech and got lost" and still be in the
same time frame as the GZGverse, because without constant immigration you
wouldn't have populations large enough to be useful in that time frame. If you
want to say
"it's in the GZGverse but not connected"--eg on the grounds that the
Ancient Hebrew Starships left Earth with the missing ten tribes or
something--then that's okay, but I don't see that it makes any
difference.
> I like the idea of the long night. It would explain why there are
Concur.