[fh] nac vexilliology was Re: Awards and ANthems(and now som

Jared spake thusly upon matters weighty:

> >> Then in each country, a figure is placed under the crown to

I'm glad. I thought it was a good one.

> >> And commonwealth vessels would display the Gold-Crown-On-Red flag
do
> >these areas, larger than a state, have their own symbols? do such

Seems likely. For the Crown, it leads to a commonwealth of territories each
smaller in power. It pits (in an economic sense) former US regions against
each other and that helps the Crown maintain control. Also, it reduces the
impact of US Nationalism and helps to diverge the interests of US regions such
that they don't act as one big hammer in the NAC Commonwealth.

Here is another one (aside): Where is the NAC Parliament Located?

> In some ways there are such divisions, in other ways, no. I am not

You could have Pacific Northwest, MidWest, Pacific SouthWest (maybe this is
FCT?), South, New England, Atlantic Coast, North East? Maybe
some US folk on the list would suggest 5-8 regional areas the states
(Minus Texas, California and probably some of NM or Arizona) could be divided
into and which states would be in which regions?

> Of course I have to wonder what happens to Alaska in this scenario -

You mean the new Territory of Nunavut (sp?) that will encompass a lot of
Yukon, NWT, and probably in the future, Alaska. Maybe this Region is known as
the Artic North and their device is a Husky or maybe a Polar Bear?

> >so, the nac-as-a-whole symbol is the crown, and the following things

Probably we need the regional themes.

> >quebec - fleur de lys

What about the other south american and central american regions? Anyone care
to comment or suggest what would be appropriate symbols?

> Sounds good! What precedents are there for rendering the symbols onto

Well, Heraldic rules (often followed on flags) indicate a Metal
(Silver/White, Gold/Yellow, and a few others) can't be put on another
metal and a colour (Blue, Red, Purple, Green, etc.) can't be put on another
colour.

I could see the Nautical Navy flag being a Navy Blue field, featuring a Golden
Crown and under it a Pair of Golden Anchors crossed. (Or a single anchor?).
The Space Navy might have a Midnight blue field (not quite black which is
dishonour) or Navy field with a Gold Crown over a Silver 8 pointed Star. The
Army might use a Red Background and Feature a Crown over a Pair of Crossed
Rifles or Crossed Swords
(Silver/White). The Marines might use a Navy Field with the Crown
(Gold/Yellow) over both a smaller Silver/White (same thing) Star and
under it a pair of Crossed Swords (Cutlasses). The Diplomatic
Service may use A Red Flag, Gold Crown and a White/Silver Dove (okay
its wishy washy but best I could think of). The Air Force (Close Orbit and
Aerospace Control Force) would have a Light Blue Field with a Gold Crown
suspended over a Silver Gull. (Or maybe a wing?).

Many civil service branches would just use the standard Red Field, Gold Crown
of the Commonwealth. I'd say that Member states retain the Red Field and the
Crown (like we talked of above) but the symbol down below is dependent (as
previously suggested) on the state in question.

Civilian Judiciary might use a Red background, Gold Crown suspended over a
Golden Gavel. Military courts would use the colour of background of their
service.

As for police, I don't have much input. Except to suggest that the Mounties
might use a pair of mouse ears... (grin). This is a whole other kettle of
fish....

Just like the question of where did NAC military units come from, the same
question can be asked of their police. And the question of how universal and
monolithic NAC law is bears examination too as this will impact policing.

Tom.
/************************************************

> On Mon, 26 Oct 1998, Thomas Barclay wrote:

doesn't it get moved to avalon at some point? otherwise it'd still be in
london, although i can imagine outstations in washington, new orleans, ottawa,
rio de janeiro or wherever, to which the parliament (or a quorum thereof)
decamps every summer for 'parliament lite', when the rest is in recess.

> You could have Pacific Northwest, MidWest, Pacific SouthWest (maybe

my latest opinion is that the former usa (minus FCT) should be divided into
two, possibly north and south but probably east and west.

also, see www2.cy-net.net/~sma/students/usa.html for an FCT map.

> > >so, the nac-as-a-whole symbol is the crown, and the following

eh?

> I could see the Nautical Navy

if there is one - i refer the honourable gentleman to the thread that
was spun many days back. oh, the twisted webs we weave. could just be part of
the police, army or customs service.

> The Space Navy might have a Midnight blue field (not

shame - space black would look quite good. i think that the nac space
navy basically considers itself to be the Royal Navy, just with space ships.
as
such, use current/historical navy symbology, ie a navy blue field with
those crossed anchors or something. i'm not up on RN symbols. now, the current
RN uses the white ensign; i suspect they still will. that is, a white field
with a red st george's cross, the top left quarter occupied by the union flag.
thus, the nac white ensign would be white, red st george's cross, gold crown
in the top left. possibly crown and anchors.

> The Army might use a Red Background and

the british army does not have a flag or symbol - it uses the union
jack. this may well change when the nac becomes the operative nation. i think
crossed swords is fine - rifles are hard, as they're not old enough to
properly stylised yet!

> The Marines might use a Navy Field with the Crown

or, being part of the navy, just use the navy flag, poss with the addition of
a cutlass. or the army flag, but with a navy field. like the army, the royal
marines do not currently have a flag other than the union flag.

> The Diplomatic

i'm not sure the diplomatic service has a flag. ambassadors are the queen's
personal envoys, so they use royal symbols.

> The Air Force (Close

or an raf-like roundel.

> Many civil service branches would just use the standard Red Field,

agreed. or the parliamentary symbol.

> I'd say that Member states retain the

ja. and always in gold, for consistency

> Civilian Judiciary might use a Red background, Gold Crown suspended

military courts are part of the military and use military symbols.
civil/criminal courts probably use a set of scales as a symbol. the
statue on top of the old bailey (high court buiding) in london is the figure
of justice with sword and scales.

Tom

On Tue, 27 Oct 1998, Thomas Barclay wrote (to me, not to the list, but
i'm sure he meant to - keep on message, Tom):
> Thomas spake thusly upon matters weighty:

kerpow! faster than a speeding packet, better at drawing than a blind lemur.
have a shufty at

users.ox.ac.uk/~univ0938/nacflags.html

there is a small chance it won't work - Normal Service Will Be Restored
As Soon As Possible and all that. i'd do more, but i really cannot draw for
toffee, so this is all you're getting for now. the crown is patterned after
the one on the 20p piece, and the shield off the one pound with the royal arms
on it.

> But you would expect that the country that has so much Heraldic

disobeying archaic rules is also a great british institution. especially when
done for no discernible reason.

> > > Yep. And they get the curly bar (the Nelson's Curl) on their

octopus logic! there is a great oxford donnish tradition of making long
strings of points in an argument - "and fourteenthly ..." is a famous
saying round these parts. fellows of biochemistry are starting to win more
arguments now the engineering of extra hands is taking place...

Tom

Excellent work Thomas!

> On Tue, 27 Oct 1998, George,Eugene M wrote: