FB2 Vapour Shroud

What are people's idea's on how to use a Vapour Shroud? Shield 2 protection
for shield 1 cost and mass is nice, but since it blocks your fire as well when
in operation when do you use it?

> What are people's idea's on how to use a Vapour Shroud? Shield 2

The easy answer is: when you're in a position to take far more damage than you
could possibly dish back out.

> oerjan.ohlson@telia.com writes:

> << Espen Sortland wrote:

> Plasma Bolt ops.

 Get hit by enemy fighters/missiles and can't fire back - ouch <g>

> turn 2 fire plasma bolts, and normal pulsers, vapor shroud down

 Get hit by enemy fighters/missiles again and *still* can't fire back at
 them...

 If the enemy has fighters and/or missiles, you *don't* want to shroud
all your ships at the same time.

Regards,

Oerjan Ohlson oerjan.ohlson@telia.com >>

Thanks for the information I thought I was missing something. If you shroud
you can not fire and your point defense net goes down. In my galaxy we call
this "missile bait." If you leave your ships with AFDC unshrouded they are
going to be priority targets. If you never shroud, so that you can keep your
point defense online you are wasting points. In small battles with few
fighters or missiles I can see the usefulness of the system, but in larger
battles I think I will swap the shroud with a level one screen. Another use
for the shroud would be a for scout ship. There your mission is not to fight
but to survive and get back with your information. Or you could put it on a
ship armed with one shot weapons. Close, fire,

shroud and run away.

> -----Original Message-----
IMHO the only really good thing about the vapour shroud is that it has a
minimum mass of 1 instead of 3 or 5 (or whatever level 1 shields has..can't
remember) so it makes actually sense to put it on the really small ships,
which f. inst. has good use for it after they've taken that very annoying
threshold hit to their FC... Or as Sean said....when you can deal out a lot
less than you would receive....

> [quoted text omitted]
 ODUPSHAW3@cs.com 06/09 4:57 am
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

When others use fighters/missiles, whats to stop the phalons from using
their own fighters as screens, blasting the incoming
fighters/missiles......

> Thanks for the information I thought I was missing something. If you

Um, what PDS net - You get 1 die from a pulser configured in any mode.
The average ships would "waste" half of their available pulsers.

> this "missile bait." If you leave your ships with AFDC unshrouded
fighters or missiles I can see the usefulness of the system, but in larger
> battles I think I will swap the shroud with a level one screen.

Swap? What did I miss here. Building your own ships/Mixing alien and
human tech? If you are talking about mixing, the ultimate combo would be
shrouds
combined with k-guns.

> Another use for the shroud would be a for scout ship. There your

> mission is not to fight but to survive and get back with your
shroud and run away.

Yup.

> Oliver Dewey Upshaw III

> Espen Sortland wrote:

> If you are talking about mixing, the ultimate combo would be shrouds

Some weapons ignore the *target's* shrouds, that's true. However... a shrouded
ship may not fire *any* weapon, including those that can be fired through the
shrouds *at* it. The K slug may ignore the shroud, but your targetting sensors
don't.

Regards,

When re-reading the rules after Sindre (local gaming group) pointed it
out to me, I stand corrected. Note to self, read the rules/have them
available next time before making another post like that...:)

Anyway, it would have been a cool combo... "may not fire *any* weapon"
does that include PDS/Scatter gun (human/kra'vak tech) defences?

Regards, Espen Sortland espen.sortland@nmd.no

> [quoted text omitted]
 oerjan.ohlson@telia.com 06/09 10:35 pm
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> Espen Sortland wrote:

> If you are talking about mixing, the ultimate combo would be shrouds

Some weapons ignore the *target's* shrouds, that's true. However... a shrouded
ship may not fire *any* weapon, including those that can be fired through the
shrouds *at* it. The K slug may ignore the shroud, but your targetting sensors
don't.

Regards,

Oerjan Ohlson oerjan.ohlson@telia.com

"Life is like a sewer. What you get out of it, depends on what you put into
it."
- Hen3ry

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When re-reading the rules after Sindre (local gaming group) pointed it
out to me, I stand corrected. Note to self, read the rules/have them
available next time before making another post like that...:)

Anyway, it would have been a cool combo... "may not fire *any* weapon"
does that include PDS/Scatter gun (human/kra'vak tech) defences?

Regards, Espen Sortland espen.sortland@nmd.no

> [quoted text omitted]
 oerjan.ohlson@telia.com 06/09 10:35 pm
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> Espen Sortland wrote:

> If you are talking about mixing, the ultimate combo would be shrouds

Some weapons ignore the *target's* shrouds, that's true. However... a shrouded
ship may not fire *any* weapon, including those that can be fired through the
shrouds *at* it. The K slug may ignore the shroud, but your targetting sensors
don't.

Regards,

Oerjan Ohlson oerjan.ohlson@telia.com

"Life is like a sewer. What you get out of it, depends on what you put into
it."
- Hen3ry

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the presence of computer viruses.
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G'day

> Anyway, it would have been a cool combo... "may not fire *any* weapon"

As far as I can remember it sure does.

Cheers

Beth

> on 6/13/00 2:12, Espen Sortland at Espen.Sortland@nmd.no wrote:

> Anyway, it would have been a cool combo... "may not fire *any* weapon"
does
> that include PDS/Scatter gun (human/kra'vak tech) defences?

--->8---

> Some weapons ignore the *target's* shrouds, that's true. However... a

Even though the PDS and Scatter Gun are more of a defensive weapon I still
consider them a weapon. Besides each of these can be used in a minor offensive
roll as well and as such it would be opening a potential loop hole for people
to exploit to allow them to fire in any mode through the shroud. This is in
addition to Oerjan's observation about targeting sensors being affected going
out of the shroud.

***
Even though the PDS and Scatter Gun are more of a defensive weapon I still
consider them a weapon. Besides each of these can be used in a minor offensive
roll as well and as such it would be opening a potential loop hole for people
to exploit to allow them to fire in any mode through the shroud.
***

If the logic is that fighters are close, might the PDS still function through
the shroud? JUST for anti-fighter defence?

What are the down sides, for play-balance? A shrouded AFDS EC? Could be
restricted to just own-ship's defence.

Sorry, just recently got both the FB2 and a pack of Phalon DD's. Been just
grossing out the local players.

I've GOT to get an image of the Outlanders' ships to re-establish Jon's
good
name. ;->=

The_Beast

-Douglas J. Evans, curmudgeon

One World, one Web, one Program - Microsoft promotional ad
Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer - Adolf Hitler

> devans@uneb.edu wrote:

> on 6/13/00 9:24, devans@uneb.edu at devans@uneb.edu wrote:

> ***

My thinking was that if you could target fighters at 6" (IIRC, this their
sphere of influence - fighters are no longer placed next to their target
upon declaring their attack) what's to prevent the targeting of ships at that
or closer range. Not that it comes up every turn but it does happen.
That Phalon PSL-C is a real killer at close range as a few KV ships in a
current PBeM game can probably tell you. <VBG>

No guys...just joking...hey, don't point those big KGuns my
way...NOoooooo...

> What are the down sides, for play-balance? A shrouded AFDS EC? Could

The Phalon PDS is their pulser so my thinking is as above. Limiting the AFDS
system goes a way towards balancing it.

ARGH! I should have reviewed the rules for FB2 (I still have the playtest info
in my head at times). Under Vapour Shrouds it specifically limits
point defense fire  ->  "A shrouded ship may move as normal, but may not
fire any weapons at all, including point-defence fire" - FB2 pg 36

> Sorry, just recently got both the FB2 and a pack of Phalon DD's. Been

No need to be sorry. I should thank you for encouraging me to review this
rule.  I'm busy assembling a good size Phalon fleet at the moment -
hmmm, should I try to finish them by GenCon (like I'm going to be able to
finish
them by then).  ;-)

> Espen Sortland wrote:

> Anyway, it would have been a cool combo... "may not fire *any*

Quoting FB2 p.36: "A shrouded ship may move as normal, but may not fire
any weapons at all, including point-defence fire."

Note that "point-defence fire" refers to *all* PD weapons, not just the
human PDS or Phalon Pulsers.

Regards,

> ***

[OFFICIAL] mode on....
No. A Phalon with shroud up cannot fire ANYTHING, defensive or offensive.
During testing we toyed briefly with the idea of letting fighters get INSIDE
the shroud to attack if they wish, but taking damage from whatever the shroud
is made of while getting through it, but eventually dropped this for balance
and simplicity issues.
[OFFICIAL] mode off....
> What are the down sides, for play-balance? A shrouded AFDS EC? Could be

What good name? I've worked long and hard on establishing a bad
reputation.... ;-)
(On second thought, maybe I shouldn't use the words "long" and "hard" in any
post relating to Phalon ships....?) Dunno where you'll find an Outlanders
image, but try some of the Anime
sites and look for "Johji Manabe" (the artist/author).

[quoted original message omitted]

> devans@uneb.edu wrote: