I'm finally mucking into some actual ship construction for FT (other than
transports and such).
I have a question for the Shipwrights on the list:
1) What's the best way to estimate how many fire-cons are appropriate
for a vessel? By raw mass? By mass of weapons? By # of weapons systems? 2)
What's the best way to estimate how many PDS are appropriate for a vessel?
mass?
3) What is the best ratio of armour/hull/screens?
4) Beams: What mix of 3/2/1s? For example, I think DDs with 3s are
great - lots of punch. But most DDs use 2s. Am I missing something?
I'm trading long range FP for shorter ranged punch, and to prevent my DDs
getting popped before they can close. 5) Comment on any design differences
between vector and cinematic and any design commonalities (how to design ships
that work well in either). 6) Are there any systems to avoid like the plague
(as poorly balanced)? (Other than the obvious potentially unbalanced WG, NC,
and
RF).
Some of these may be opinion based, admittedly. I just want some opinions and
the arguments behind them. I'm not entirely concerned
about min-maxing - I just want to produce designs with no glaring
flaws, or realize when I am "out on a limb" design wise.
1. By arcs seems to be best. You want to be able to fire all weapons
regardless of arc & then add 1 FC for redundancy. Eg: 2 beams & 2 PTorps,
both offset would need 4 firecons + 1 redundant.
2. 1 PDS per 25-30 mass would give you average defences. More than
1 per 20 mass starts cutting into your offensive firepower unless you expect
heavy fighter/missile engagements.
3. 5-8% armour/PDS, 30% hull, 5% screen. (ie: NAC ships). This
gives you the best all around defences against the full range of weapons.
Against
beam heavy or PTorp/missile heavy forces, you need to bias the defences
appropriately. 4. DDs are classed as expendable units in a fleet engagement,
which
means high speed and flanking maneuvers. Class-2s are less mass
intensive
for 3 arcs than Class-3s (you can get 3 class-2s for 1 class 3 with the
same arcs) which gives greater effect for those DDs which do get into range.
All the time your opponent is plinking DDs, you're heavier units are stripping
the armour & first threshold off their heavies while you close the range.
5. High thrust and multi-arc weapons are more important in
cinematic as you need a larger maneuver envelope to bring single arc weapons
to bear.
In
Vector, you can load a ship with single arc weapons & not significantly
degrade the firepower on a turn-by-turn basis.
6. Unless taken to extremes, there aren't any systems to avoid in the standard
weapons. Needlebeams can be useful in light attack ships or as multiweapon
broadsides on a larger ship, otherwise don't mount them singly, they aren't
reliable enough.
Neath Southern Skies - http://users.mcmedia.com.au/~denian/
[mkw] Admiral Peter Rollins; Task Force Zulu
> -----Original Message-----
In a message dated 11/22/99 5:59:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> Brendan.Robertson@dva.gov.au writes:
> 4. DDs are classed as expendable units in a fleet engagement, which
All
> the time your opponent is plinking DDs, you're heavier units are
It depends upon your tactics--if you use your DD's to snipe with (at
long range) you don't actually need to mount them with the same arcs as you
would
with beam-2's. It's still not that great a trade, as you get two
beam-2's in
the same space as a 1-arc beam-3--but the plinking destroyer is a bit
more
survivable than a close-in fighter. Of course, the 3-arc beam-2 is a
lot more forgiving (assuming you don't guess the enemy's course very well). It
all just depends upon your style of play (and that of your usual opponents).
Rob
> I have a question for the Shipwrights on the list:
By purpose or by weapon gets my vote. Most ships of cruiser size or smaller
will concentrate their fire on one target on any given turn, excepting weapons
or systems that require a dedicateed FireCon. A cruiser armed only with beams
could easily get away with two (one plus a spare for those pesky threshold
checks).
Larger ships tend to split their fire if confronted by smaller opponents, or
concentrate it on larger ones, so they'll need more in general.
> 2) What's the best way to estimate how many PDS are appropriate for a
I would say MASS, but in an indirect way. Fighters will be attracted to larger
vessels, thus they need more PDSs... unless you have an escort doing the job
with PDSs and an Area FireCon. An escort can protect more than one ship as
well, giving more bang for your PDS buck.
> 3) What is the best ratio of armour/hull/screens?
Depends on whether you thing in terrms of the first threshold or prolonged
survivability. Many on the list have gone for the armor path to postpone the
first threshold as long as they can. This keeps your systems operational for
longer until after the first threshold, after which things rapidly
deteriorate. Screens, on the other hand, do relatively little to postpone the
first threshold (comparatively), but make the unit more survivable after. You
choose.
> 4) Beams: What mix of 3/2/1s? For example, I think DDs with 3s are
Class 3 beams cost alot, both in terms of MASS and points, particularly if you
want any kind of arc. You can put one on a small ship, but not much else.
Escorts, in my experience are best used as a mobile reserve of sorts. They
remain behind the main battle line, but can rapidly dart in where needed to
provide extra firepower or finish off a cripple. Class 2 batteries serve this
purpose better.
The "Official" designs tend to limit themselves to smaller class batteries for
smaller ships, prevserving a slightly archaic naval flavor. I like it, though
there's been no PSB reason for doing so.
> 5) Comment on any design differences between vector and cinematic and
Cinematic generally requires weapons with better arcs, as it's more difficult
to "come about," though generally, a good design in one will work well in the
other as well.
> 6) Are there any systems to avoid like the plague (as poorly
I believe that the Cloak was also included in that bunch.
kaladom asked:
> I have a question for the Shipwrights on the list:
By number of targets you'll want to fire at in a single turn (including extra
FCs for things like Needle beams if you use them, or Pulse Torps if you use
the old FC rules for them).
> 2) What's the best way to estimate how many PDS are appropriate for a
Enemy fondness of fighters and missiles, and the ship's own speed.
Thrust-2 ships are very easy to hit with missiles in both movement
systems.
> 3) What is the best ratio of armour/hull/screens?
Depends on your speed, but if the enemy relies mainly on beams level-2
screens + 10% armour + Weak hull is a pretty save bet. If he uses too
many missiles, Pulse Torps or other nasties that ignore the screens,
use level-1 or no screens and an Average or even Strong hull instead.
> 4) Beams: What mix of 3/2/1s? For example, I think DDs with 3s are
The number of dice you get for each Mass of weapon, I think :-/ Compare
one C3-3 battery with the 3 C2-3s you get for the same Mass, and look
at the number of dice they throw in each range band.
> 5) Comment on any design differences between vector and cinematic
Commonalities: Hulls and passive defences.
Differences: Long-range single-arc weapons work a lot better in Vector
than in Cinematic.
> 6) Are there any systems to avoid like the plague (as poorly
Cloak and Reflex Field.
Regards,
> On 22-Nov-99 at 21:46, RWHofrich@aol.com (RWHofrich@aol.com) wrote:
I think it depends more on your assigned role for your DD's. If you want a DD
playing around in your battle line give them threes. If your DD's purpose in
life is to defend shipping and convoy raiding then drop the 3's.
On that note, I think all these house rules about "must have X DD's for every
ship of type X" are bogus. I really can't see any reason to send those small
ships into a major engagement so they can blow
up. A house rule saying no more then 1/3 (or 1/X) of your points
may be in one ship would be fine.
> On 22-Nov-99 at 23:34, Sean Bayan Schoonmaker (schoon@aimnet.com) wrote:
> >2) What's the best way to estimate how many PDS are appropriate for a
I tend to start with about the same number as they have in the fleet book.
If I expect to be running in a fighter or SM(R|L) environment I add an
ADFC under the theory that it doesn't matter how many PDS's you have, it's how
many you can put on target. If experience with the rest of the group shows
this isn't enough I add more until it feels right. The last big battle we had
my opponent answered my SMR barrage with almost 30 PDS's. I still took out his
CVL.
> >3) What is the best ratio of armour/hull/screens?
Many of use make the ship with standard hull, design the whole thing out, and
then convert to a weak hull and use the excess for armour. This gives you the
same total number of hits while making all thresholds occur later. It breaks a
little against penetrating weapons, but not enough to make much difference.
> >6) Are there any systems to avoid like the plague (as poorly
Salvo Missiles. As far as I am concerned they are never the "bang for the
buck" as fighters or beams. Of course, I still use them. That look of fear in
your opponents eye when the Missile Cruiser opens up with it's 10 SMR's and
blankets the board is just more than I can forego.