FB - emblems

FYI I've posted a prototype FB FSE emblem in the Graphics & Fonts section of:

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/3565/#graphic

The other will follow soon - time permitting

Quick question what's the colour of the stylised A of the NAC emblem?

The interior components are Reb,White,Blue but its doesn't say what colour the
A is IIRC

Thanks to both Adrian and Tim for the views of the fleet emblems; I've started
saving scrap plastic to bash uniform badges until the pewter comes through.
Also, BIG thanks to Jon for letting them be shown.

I still think the FSE should have been for Free Cal/Tex, though, with a
lonestar and a longhorn, it looks mostly Tex...

You could take the NSL, rotate the wingtips up, slightly, scootch the head
over, repeat and point the other way, for the Romanoff's(anybody remember the
Romanoff's?)

Jon, comments on the origins/significance of the emblems, though
probably obvious to you, would be appreciated. If there IS such; I recall
Roddenberry getting pretty miffed about detailed questions early on concerning
Star Trek minutia. Seems he used stuff that sounded good, and was beginning to
tire of thinking rationales behind them.

Or, should I just wait for the FB, if it has the above?

As most of the ships I've tried bashing, though none are complete, are
aircraft rockets, bombs, and tanks, I've decided they are actually
converted tankers from a spin-off of the losers from a corporate war:
the Texaco Free States. Now, if only I could find some very small Texaco
decals...

By the way, this is also a test, but with content. You can decide on
deleting. ;->=

The_Beast

On Friday, May 29, 1998 3:38 PM, Doug_Evans/CSN/UNEBR@UNebMail.UNeb.EDU
[> Jon,
comments on the origins/significance of the emblems, though probably
> obvious to you, would be appreciated. If there IS such; I recall

It does -

IIRC

FSE is the Bull of Europa plus the Star from
the EEC flag - the colours are as you might notice those
of the EEC flag.

NAC is a styilised A with Red, White & Blue inserts where the closed triagle
in the A is

NSL is the imperial eagle

ESU is the Red marksist/communist star

> You wrote:

> I still think the FSE should have been for Free Cal/Tex, though, with

Free Cal-Tex:  Just one huge ego!

(Note:  humo(u)r--I lived three years in Texas, and most of my family
is Texan, so I can talk).

Doug_Evans/CSN/UNEBR@UNebMail.UNeb.EDU:
> As most of the ships I've tried bashing, though none are complete, are
the
> Texaco Free States. Now, if only I could find some very small Texaco

I seem to remember such things in railroad stores, for
N-gauge trains.

> FYI

My only comment would be that the blue needs to be darker - nice job,
though.

> Thanks to both Adrian and Tim for the views of the fleet emblems; I've

Heh. I well know THAT feeling.....:)
> Or, should I just wait for the FB, if it has the above?

Yes, the FB explains the origins of the emblems, but most a pretty
self-explanatory - the NAC one is a stylised "A" (for Anglian), in the
traditional red, white and blue of the Union flag, the FSE is uses the old
symbol for Europa, a bull (it is explained that the French wanted their
Tricolour but for once were voted down!), with the star to symbolise both
spacefaring and federal unity. The ESU star and bars is a development of both
Russian and Chinese military symbols (especially the Chinese air force
marking) and the NSL one is pretty obvious - the good 'ol Imperial
Eagle.

> As most of the ships I've tried bashing, though none are complete, are
the
> Texaco Free States. Now, if only I could find some very small Texaco

Try some "N" gauge railway wagon decals - must be some for tank
cars....?

[snip]
> Quick question what's the colour of the stylised A of

The A is blue, the centre bar is red and the outer bars white.

> Tim Jones wrote:
...snip...JTL
> The interior components are Reb,White,Blue but its doesn't

Tim, I sort of thought that the southern states had gone with texas into the
FCT.

Bye for now,

> John Atkinson wrote:
...Snip...JTL
> Free Cal-Tex: Just one huge ego!
...snip...JTL

> You wrote:

> Yes, the FB explains the origins of the emblems, but most a pretty

Thankfully, both the Union and the old American flag (which if the current
sentiment for former flags in our Southern half is any hint, still has
emotional meaning).

> You wrote:

Jon:
> >traditional red, white and blue of the Union flag, the FSE is uses

> On Fri, 29 May 1998, John Atkinson wrote:

> >Yes, the FB explains the origins of the emblems, but most a pretty

I *think* he was talking about the Union Jack.

(Heck, the French tricolor is red-white-blue. The combination is
popular enough.)

> Tim Jones wrote:

Not meaning to step on tips toes or anything, but I tried colorizing the
images in Photoshop, not remaking them as Tim has, and put 'em here

http://www.rinc.or.jp/~adrian/projecth/nsl.jpg
http://www.rinc.or.jp/~adrian/projecth/fse.jpg

> Tim Jones wrote:

and here is a revised version of the small symbols in color:

> On Fri, 29 May 1998, John Atkinson wrote:

Yes, but though common usage calls it the Union Jack (even over here), this
term is (IIRC) properly used ONLY when it is flown on a ship - when used
for all other pureposes it is simply the Union FLAG.

Jon (GZG)
> (Heck, the French tricolor is red-white-blue. The combination is

> Tim Jones wrote:

Haven't had time to check the sites yet, but for the ESU star the idea is
that it either has a gold fill-in between the star and the bar elements
when used as a navy symbol, or when on a flag has a thin gold keyline round a
simple star, without the "bars".

> Ground Zero Games wrote:

Some color symbols here for reference.

> >http://www.rinc.or.jp/~adrian/projecth/nsl.jpg

> Haven't had time to check the sites yet, but for the ESU star the idea

I'm still confused. All I want is to color the symbol from the book. 1) It
consists of a background. I made it white, but I think it should be red from
the book's description. 2) A star. I made it all red, but the above sounds
like red with a gold edge or border on it. 3) The bars. I made them gold, but
they appear to be optional.

So In words, my version is Gold bars and a Red star on a white background.
Should this have a red background, a red star with a gold edge and gold bars?

> You wrote:

> John:

FYI, for the pedants amongst us, as far as I know the Union Jack is the flag
flown on United Kingdom naval vessels, while the Union Flag is the one flown
on buildings etc. Not that I know what the difference between how they look
is, if there is any.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> Ground Zero Games wrote:

Gold background. Red star and red bars.

> On Sat, 30 May 1998, Ground Zero Games wrote:

> Yes, but though common usage calls it the Union Jack (even over here),

Interesting. Being a (damn) furriner, *my* first thought was Union as in

ACW - North, before I thought about it.

Interestingly enough, both these flags *and* the confed flag share the colors.

Oh, I guess every NAC political group has their pet theory about the
*real* origin of the colors -- Quebec separatists included (whatever
their status might be in 2183).

> Adrian Bruce wrote:

For anyone who is still following this, these FB symbols should now be
correct. They are colorized scans from the book.

> > >http://www.rinc.or.jp/~adrian/projecth/nsl.jpg

Fixed the use.jpg

> > >http://www.rinc.or.jp/~adrian/projecth/use.jpg

These are about the size of Tim's symbol.

The original 300dpi gray scale scans from the book are

> Richard Slattery wrote:
...snip...JTL
> > Mikko:

Greetings All, The 'Jack' is a small flag flown on the bow of a (war) ship
when it is in port.   The 'Union Jack' is both the U.S.A. and the
U.K., when refering to this small flag.   For the U.K. it is the
'Union Jack' that we all know. For the U.S.A. it is the blue field of stars
from the national flag. For the U.K. the national flag at the stern has a red,
white, or blue field attached and is called an 'ensign'. Exactly what
determines the assignment of the colored ensigns is not known to me.

Bye for now,

> On Sat, 30 May 1998, Ground Zero Games wrote:

An understandable mistake, since we Brits have so many different ways of
referring to our country (or countries) - when I went over tho the US
for GenCon a couple of years back I spent a while trying to explain the
difference between English and British (terms that many Americans seem to use
interchangeably), and the precise meaning of the "United Kingdom of
Great Britain and Northern Ireland" - the "Union" to which the flag
refers.
> Interestingly enough, both these flags *and* the confed flag share the

Yeah, funny that.....:)
> Oh, I guess every NAC political group has their pet theory about the

I'm not going to get involved in this one....:)

[snip]

> Greetings All,

The White Ensign is for warships, the Red Ensign for merchants; not sure about
the blue one.

> Jon (GZG) wrote:

> The White Ensign is for warships, the Red Ensign for merchants; not

Blue is nowadays used by the Royal Navy Reserve, some Govt Depts and any

yacht club with the word Royal in its name.

White is Royal Navy and Royal Naval Yacht Squadron.

Red is merchant shipping and pleasure craft.

Steve Pugh
...snip...JTL
> Blue is nowadays used by the Royal Navy Reserve, some Govt Depts and

(Besides the ships are dark gray and dark blue, I need the red w/ white
outline to add a bit of color.)

Bye for now.

> > Blue is nowadays used by the Royal Navy Reserve, some Govt Depts and

I wouldn't worry about it. Originally the red, white and blue ensigns were
flown by the red, white and blue squadrons of the Royal Navy. (Also called the
1st, 2nd, 3rd squadrons but I can't remember which colour went with which
number.)

No reason why the NAC can't have reinvented something similar and have Red,
White and Blue Fleets.

I'll keep this brief

My latest versions of all the emblems are up

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/3565/#graphic

They comply with the agreed colour scheme AFAIK (OK the NSL is on a red field
but it looks better)

I'll post the originals in flexible vector format
and WMF so you can use them is word/excel etc

> At 19:27 31/05/98 +0100, you wrote:
SNIP
> I wouldn't worry about it. Originally the red, white and blue ensigns

As I remember it (which is a bit vaguely) Red was first, White was 2nd and
Blue was 3rd. Each Squadron was at least nominally divided into a vanguard,
main body and rearguard, and therefore required 3 Admirals (i.e. an Admiral,
a Vice-Admiral and a Rear-Admiral) to command them.  The Red was the
senior squadron, and its Admiral was also Admiral of the Fleet. This, of
course dates from the era when the RN might be expected to fight as a single
unit (the 17th century I suppose). The current seniority of the White Ensign
is I believe a tribute to Nelson, who was Admiral of the White when he died at
Trafalgar.  Incidentally, promotion was from Captain to Rear-admiral was
strictly in order of seniority on the Navy List, leading to the promotion of
many Captains simply to get them out of the way of a favoured man. Such
admirals were assigned "to an unspecified squadron", and often referred to as
"Admirals of the Yellow".

Rob