If anyone has read Pournelle's Falkenberg's Legion/Sparta series, I've
come up with some stats for the Cataphract light AFV from the book Prince of
Sparta. Based on the conversation Lysander has with the design team about
Sparta's technology level and what they had to work with, I've determined that
the Cataphract is a class 2 vehicle, Fast tracked, with a CFE engine, 2 levels
of Reactive armor, no extra levels of stealth, and Basic targeting and ECM.
The 76 mm gun version I determined was equipped in DS II tems with a HKP
3,
and an extra APSW.
The 155 mm artillery version became a light artillery piece, the extra space
being taken up by 1 extra fire mission's worth of ammo.
The IFV version simply carries 2 elements of infantry.
Not the most ideal vehicles in the universe, but I felt they came pretty
close to recreating the vehicles in the book.
If anyone else has read this series, please let me know if they've come up
with some stats for the Friedlanders' panzers.
Thanks,
> If anyone has read Pournelle's Falkenberg's Legion/Sparta
Reactive? I must have missed that...
> Basic targeting and ECM
Weren't they buying electronics from Friedland? I seem to recall the
Friedlanders were starting to wonder about the quantites the Spartans were
buying.
> The 155 mm artillery version became a light artillery piece,
I think of Light Arty as 81mm mortar; I'd think of 155mm howitzers as at least
medium.
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Laserlight" <laserlight@quixnet.net>
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
To: <gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Re: Falkenberg/DSII
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 21:22:17 -0500
Reactive? I must have missed that...
You did. Pages 57-58: "High-stability explosive. fire a shaped-charge
warhead at it, and it explodes and disrupts the plasma jet."
> Basic targeting and ECM
Weren't they buying electronics from Friedland? I seem to recall the
Friedlanders were starting to wonder about the quantites the Spartans were
buying.
Again, page 58: "nothing but four-way stabilization on the weapons and
a laser range finder, I'm afraid..."
I think of Light Arty as 81mm mortar; I'd think of 155mm howitzers as at least
medium.
Oops, it was 125 mm not 155. That blurs the line a bit. Still, you have a
point. But my goal was to come up with one chassis and then several variants,
to reflect the story line. You could justify, I suppose, saying the arty
version's a class 3, but still on the same basic chassis, but I
felt keeping it light kept the vehicles uniform.
> Laserlight wrote:
Quoting from pp. 57-58 (my paperback version):
"The armor's a sandwich," Azziz said, slapping it affectionately. "Twenty mm
of steel, then a layer of interwoven Nemourlon and
iron-chrome thread in insulac, then another 20mm of steel. With this on
top." He held up a square of some hard glossy material, on a sheet-metal
backing. "High-stability explosive. Fire a shaped-charge warhead at it,
and it explodes and disrupts the plasma jet. Old Dayan idea." "From Earth,
really," Melissa said....
I see that as being 'reactive' within the meaning of the term.
> >Basic targeting and ECM
Yes, indeed that was the case. I'd probably give it Enhanced targetting (which
they were definitely buying), but maybe only Basic ECM.
> >The 155 mm artillery version became a light artillery piece, the
Unfortunately, Medium artillery (treated as Class 4), takes up 12 space, and a
Class 2 vehicle (which I think this is) only has 10.
By the way, if a design's been made, I'm guessing there might be miniatures?
I'm quite interested in the universe, and I'd be very interested in hearing
what other people may be using in the way of miniatures....
In a message dated 3/10/00 8:08:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> bbilderback@hotmail.com writes:
> If anyone has read Pournelle's Falkenberg's Legion/Sparta series, I've
Damn, its been ages since I read that one. Now I'm going to have to take it
down from the bookshelf and read it again. Damn your eyes! ;-)
Rob
You interpreted the description of the armor the same way I did. However, if
you'd read further down the page, you'd have seen the quote which led me to
choose basic targeting as well as ECM. As for Arty, you have expressed
perfectly the dilemma I faced when doing this write-up.
I was thinking a British Scorpion or a German Luchs would do well. Also,
doesn't the US Army have a 105 mm Howitzer on a light SPG carriage? Just
some ideas.
Brian B
----Original Message Follows----
From: Brian Quirt <baqrt@mta.ca>
Quoting from pp. 57-58 (my paperback version):
"The armor's a sandwich," Azziz said, slapping it affectionately. "Twenty mm
of steel, then a layer of interwoven Nemourlon and
iron-chrome thread in insulac, then another 20mm of steel. With this on
top." He held up a square of some hard glossy material, on a sheet-metal
backing. "High-stability explosive. Fire a shaped-charge warhead at it,
and it explodes and disrupts the plasma jet. Old Dayan idea." "From Earth,
really," Melissa said....
I see that as being 'reactive' within the meaning of the term.
> >Basic targeting and ECM
were
> buying.
Yes, indeed that was the case. I'd probably give it Enhanced targetting (which
they were definitely buying), but maybe only Basic ECM.
> >The 155 mm artillery version became a light artillery piece, the
Unfortunately, Medium artillery (treated as Class 4), takes up 12 space, and a
Class 2 vehicle (which I think this is) only has 10.
By the way, if a design's been made, I'm guessing there might be miniatures?
I'm quite interested in the universe, and I'd be very interested in hearing
what other people may be using in the way of miniatures....
So glad I could determine the course of your weekend. *evil smile*
Oh, yeah, don't forget, you'll probably want to read at LEAST "Go Tell Sparta"
before tackling Prince of Sparta, if not even MORE of the earlier books in the
series. Ain't I a stinker?
Brian B
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Brian Bilderback" <bbilderback@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
Subject: Re: Falkenberg/DSII
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 19:08:50 PST
So glad I could determine the course of your weekend. *evil smile*
> Laserlight wrote:
I would agree, provided it was autofeed for the 81mm mortar. I would suggest
that 105mm howitzer would be light artillery as well.
> At 07:11 PM 3/10/00 PST, you wrote:
You might redeem yourself by providing a more complete Falkenberg
bibliography. I've got a paperback entitled Falkenberg's Legion which the fine
print indicates is a compilation of The Mercenary and West of Honor. However,
it isn't quite clear what other books listed on the forplate are in this CoDom
timeline, and how they relate.
It's been a while since I've been to the used bookstore, and I may as well
have a list in hand...
I must confess to having read little of the series, I have read Prince of
Mercenaries, Go Tell the Spartans, and Prince of Sparta, which fall in order.
According to the book, other books in the series are: Falkenberg's Legion;
Birth of Fire; High Justice; and King David's Spaceship. Keep in mind, these
are about the LEgion, the planet Sparta, and the birth of a new empire, all
set in the nadir of the CoDo.
Brian B
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Jim 'Jiji' Foster" <jfoster@kansas.net>
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
Subject: Re: Falkenberg/DSII
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 11:04:12 -0600
> At 07:11 PM 3/10/00 PST, you wrote:
You might redeem yourself by providing a more complete Falkenberg
bibliography. I've got a paperback entitled Falkenberg's Legion which the fine
print indicates is a compilation of The Mercenary and West of Honor. However,
it isn't quite clear what other books listed on the forplate are in this CoDom
timeline, and how they relate.
It's been a while since I've been to the used bookstore, and I may as well
have a list in hand...
In a message dated 3/11/00 11:20:44 AM Central Standard Time,
> bbilderback@hotmail.com writes:
<< I must confess to having read little of the series, I have read Prince of
Mercenaries, Go Tell the Spartans, and Prince of Sparta, which fall in order.
According to the book, other books in the series are: Falkenberg's Legion;
Birth of Fire; High Justice; and King David's Spaceship. Keep in mind, these
are about the LEgion, the planet Sparta, and the birth of a new empire, all
set in the nadir of the CoDo.
> [quoted text omitted]
King David's Spaceship is set in the Second Empire, after the collapse of both
the CoDo and the First Empire. Birth of fire is set further back in time i
believe, and High Justice is set around the same time as the Falkenburg's
Legion stories, but is only peripheral to the stories. The bulk of Pournelle's
novels are set in this universe, but differ vastly in the time frame. His
books range from near future to far future, spanning several thousand years.
In fact the Mote in God's Eye, that he and Niven wrote, is set in the far
future of the same universe as the Falkenburg's Legion and CoDo stories. All
are great books to base games on, although you do get the impression that
Falkenburg, like Drake's Alois Hammer, is unbeatable.
John
Yeah, I got the same impression. Of course, that's a pretty common heroic
archetype, no?
In a message dated 3/11/00 12:43:29 PM Central Standard Time,
> bbilderback@hotmail.com writes:
<< Yeah, I got the same impression. Of course, that's a pretty common heroic
archetype, no?
> [quoted text omitted]
True, but i like flawed heroes sometimes, it is sometimes boring to see the
hero of bok after book make decisions that, in hindsight, were exactly
right...
Oh, I fully agree. One of the reasons I loved Tolkien so much.
----Original Message Follows----
In a message dated 3/11/00 12:20:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> bbilderback@hotmail.com writes:
> I must confess to having read little of the series, I have read Prince
Falkenberg's
> Legion; Birth of Fire; High Justice; and King David's Spaceship.
Keep in
> mind, these are about the LEgion, the planet Sparta, and the birth of
Speaking as a person taht has wll of the Pournelle books ever written on his
bookshelf somewhere (except "Gripping Hand"--or whatever the follow-on
book
was to "Mote..."):
Only Prince of Mercenaries, Falkenberg's Legion (The Mercenary, West of
Honor), Go Tell the Spartans, Prince of Sparta are Falkenburg/Sparta
books, IIRC. There are others set in the CoDominion universe, though.
And yes, I'm going back to the bfginning and will be reading the whole
Falkenburg/Sparta series.
Rob
Cool. Maybe YOU can come up with some DSII stats for Friedlander panzers. In
the meantime, I'm trying to dig up another book of mine, "Side Show," I forget
the author, and am going to do the same to the vehicles in there.
----Original Message Follows----
In a message dated 3/11/00 5:18:17 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> bbilderback@hotmail.com writes:
> Cool. Maybe YOU can come up with some DSII stats for Friedlander
Rick Shelley is the author (the other books in the series that I have
are--Until Relieved and Jump Pay).
> ----Original Message Follows----
When this thread first came up my original thought was, "Why for DS2? I'd
think stats for SG2 would be more appropriate." This was based upon my
(somewhat faulty) memory of the books as I remembered a lot of
LI/Special
Forces type action and little mechanized combat. Oh well, I'm almost done
with Prince of Mercenaries now--Falkenburg's Legion is next on the list.
And
I'll be happy to come up with the stats for the Friedlanders (both SG2 and
DS2), but don't hold your breath-that's probably a month off at the
earliest.
Rob
OK, now you've made MY weekend. I always knew there had to be other books in
the series, but couldn't find the titles. Now I can start looking. Thanks.
Oh, I almost forgot, to respond to Robert's other comment:
Yes, I agree, the Falkenberg series DOES lend itself more to SGII than to
DSII. But I neither own nor play SGII, so I'll just have to settle for DSII
stats for the vehicles mentioned in the books. And I will be looking forward
to your Friedlander stats, though not with bated breath, since I did heed your
warning on the time factor.