To the list as a whole:
I was just in Game Castle and picked up the Babylon Projects Gamemasters
Resource Kit (a GM Screen). Inside I found but one gem, a ships system diagram
of an explorer class ship (AKA: the Cortez). Is this news, or just news to me.
Now for the bad news, there is no permission to copy statement. This may not
seem like much, but my local copy shop won't copy it without the statement.
Looks like I'll be scanning it into the computer, what a pain.
To Jon:
I have been watching all the B5 reruns on TNT and I can't find any reference
to the Cotton Class and the Shepherd or Porcupine Starfury transports. Where
did these ships come from. I hope they are not "made up ships", that is one of
my biggest problems with B5 Wars. There next release of miniatures is going to
be a bunch of "made up ships" from the Narn Centauri conflict. his was the
same thing that turned me off of star fleet battles. Why make up ship designs
when the show producers have provided a long list of so called "official" ship
designs. In Full Thrust, with its very optional back ground, designing your
own ships is part of the fun. But, IMHO, when you pay in someone else's world,
I think it would be best to stick to the script.
> Scott Jaqua wrote:
Where
> did these ships come from. I hope they are not "made up ships", that
As far as I know, the Olympus was seen in "In the Begining." As for "made up
ships" I really don't understand what your problem is. Just because all we
usually see of the Earth Force fleet are Omegas and Hyperions dosen't mean
that there are not other ships. All of the ship designs that AoG and WF are
coming out with for their respective
products must be OK-ed by JMS himself. (Something they didn't do with
SFB). Besides, it's one thing to stick with the script, but there is so much
more that the audience isn't seeing that it has to imagine for itself.
> To the list as a whole:
Where
> did these ships come from. I hope they are not "made up ships", that is
his
> was the same thing that turned me off of star fleet battles. Why make
Can't help you on this one - it was mainly Zeke at Wireframe that did
the ship stats to fit the rules I supplied, and though I gave them some
suggestions on the ships I knew from the show, the ones you mention were
done entirely by them - I haven't seen any of these on screen either;
suggest you ask them directly on the Babylon Project mailing list.
> Mark A. Siefert Wrote:
> As far as I know, the Olympus was seen in "In the Begining."
Mark
Its not much of a problem, more like a symptom. As I stated in a private
e-mail to someone else. Why make up ships when there is a wealth of
"official" ships yet to explore. The Cortez is a great example. What if Jack
Maynard came back from the rim and found his friend John in the middle of a
civil war. What about the Drazi or the Pakmara(sp). There are allot of ships
that we have already seen that need to be explored first (IMHO).
I tend to agree with Scott on this. Being a parent I really notice it now with
kids wanting Batman toys with 20 different uniforms and weapons which were
never used in any comic or movie or All the Beasties characters that are not
in the tv show. Basically it's a matter of coming up with different ways to
make money on something so we'll invent a product we can put a name to and
sell. Maybe this is too sinister to attribute to AOG but I won't be buying any
of their ships which I haven't seen in the show. Especially when you get
things like the new Narn Battleship when the clear implication of the tv show
is the G'Quan is their biggest ship. If they had bigger ships why weren't
there any when they sent their main fleet to Gorash 7 when all they showed
were G'Quans. By all means people can buy the ships and use them but let the
"purists" be.
David Best
> ----------
> BEST, David wrote:
Errrrrr.... didn't you people read my post. THE SHIPS ARE OFFICIAL!!!
JMS APPROVED THEM!!! You guys sound like a couple of bible-thumpers
denying that something that is proven scientific fact simply because "it's not
in the bible."
> I tend to agree with Scott on this. Being a parent I really notice
Mark, chill, do not speak of thumping the book of...of...of Him. It is
disrespectful. And don't hafta burst a bubble; you'll need your capillaries
for Finals Week. ;-)
For those who may have missed it in the past, JMS has been asked by people
'what about the other ships in the various races' fleets, do they
exist?',
and he has said, yes, they do, but for purposes of the show, we don't see them
because they do nothing to make the *story* progress. We see only what we see
to move the story along.
If you were to go to a harbor (oh for instance, the Baltimore Inner Harbor:),
and decided that whatever you see there is what represents the Real World, you
would be sadly off your mark. We see a number of frigates come through
here, some cutters, a destroyer or two - but we don't see cruisers,
carriers, or anything of that ilk. So if you based your sampling of naval
ships on just what you saw in this one area, you would be *way* off the mark
of what's out there. This is basically how JMS has run his B5 story. We see
some ships. Not all of 'em. But they exist. In some way, shape, or form.
Personally I don't care what anyone else wants to play with, as long as
*they're* happy. If you want to play with *only* the ships you've ever
seen, then so be it. If you want to play with a more rounded-out fleet,
then so be it. I decided long ago when I first came up with my own rendition
of B5 rules for FT to expand the fleets to cover ship classes we hadn't yet
seen. No one seemed to complain too much when I ran a few scenarios
using 'em. :-)
So, now, how do we get this fully back onto an FT topic? :-)
Mk
> Happiness is a belt-fed weapon wrote:
Sorry guys. I've been having one of THOSE months. ($320 bucks to the IRS,
Gina, catching up with homework after my accident in January, Gina, nagging
professors, Gina...)
> Errrrrr.... didn't you people read my post. THE SHIPS ARE OFFICIAL!!!
Yes I did read your post. Did you read my original post? Did you notice the
large "IF" as in IF they are or are not official. No need to blow this up, as
I said it was one of many reasons way I stopped playing STB. My original point
was to find out where we saw them. I would like to get a screen capture, so if
a mini does come on the market, I know how to paint the blasted thing. As to
my other points about lots of other ships we have seen, and no need to make
new ones up, THAT WAS THE SECONDARY POINT. So please just pass it over if you
wish.
> If you were to go to a harbor (oh for instance, the Baltimore Inner
Maybe it just me, but I come from a family of modelers, who live and breath
scale models (yes mini's are scale models). If you don't have a prototype from
the "real" world, you don't build the model. Now I recognise that this is a
false premiss in an SF world like B5, but it how I'm programed. So given you
harbor example above, I wouldn't feel comfortable making (painting) a ship
that I had not seen, or didn't have some fid of photo of.
> Personally I don't care what anyone else wants to play with, as long
Your point about how people perceive fun is well made. As to needing more
ships for game balance, (IMHO) its already there with out new ships. My 2
cents worth says that you only would need new ships to play with new weapons,
and new weapons are what is most likely to mess up game balance. I'm sure
every one loved playing with your B5 rules (I know I thought they were pretty
good). But that was before the two most recent seasons with a wealth of source
material.
> Scott Jaqua wrote:
Dear Scott, David and everyone else on the list: Please forgive my
tactlessnes, I was being a jerk. As you may have noticed I am someone who
get's riled up very quickly when faced with a opposing argument that I don't
really understand. I will try not to let my emotions get the best of me in the
future.
Dear Mark!
No problem, don't worry about it. My life is rather stressful right now as
well. I realize that you can't show everything in a tv show and I accept the
possiblities of support ships not shown (I do however have a problem with BIG
ships if they don't show up when they should). As for "official" approval by
JMS didn't he give both EFSB and B5 Wars approval and some of the ships stats
are quite different depending on which game you are playing. Anyway, that's
all I'll say on this.
David Best
> ----------
Dear Mark and all
No problem mark, my temper gets the better of way too often. I understand get
frustrated when you don't understand an argument. I think the problem is in
the wording. What JMS says is "official", but my question was, have we seen
the "prototype". All in all this thread should most likely be killed off to
put every one out of their misery. My only request would be a thread on if
anyone can find a reference to the ships in question, so I can view the tapes
and pull a still.