[DSII] Urban terrain

Quick query about urban terrain perhaps someone out there can help me with:

AFV's in urban terrain (not clever but sometimes unavoidable), opposition in a
similar position. How do we fight? Ranged combat disallowed as it is urban
terrain, close combat can only be initiated by infantry... What happens?

In a message dated 6/21/99 10:16:15 AM EST, G.T.Perkins@exeter.ac.uk
writes:

<<
AFV's in urban terrain (not clever but sometimes unavoidable), opposition in a
similar position. How do we fight? Ranged combat disallowed as it is urban
terrain, close combat can only be initiated by infantry... What happens?
> [quoted text omitted]

Your tanks get mobbed by infantry with improvised close assault weapons, and
you buy a farm for a discount rate. AFV's are dead meat in tight surroundings
UNLESS you have the infantry to hold their hands while they cross the street.

> AFV's in urban terrain (not clever but sometimes

I think it's meant to represent the fact that vehicles cannot use their
primary method of attack in urban areas. Yeah sure Tanks can blow up a
building here and there but unless the infantry run out in front of it you
vehicle is usless. And you can't justify using your AFV to storm in to a
building and flush out the enemy:) It just won't fit.

> > AFV's in urban terrain (not clever but sometimes

Perhaps I'm being a little unclear, to clarify:

Two armour units (i.e.: two units consisting soley of
vehicles) - however unlikely - end up facing off in urban
terrain. The armour units cannot fire at each other using direct fire weapons
(as it is an urban area) and may not close assault (as only infantry can
initiate a close assault). How can I attack the opposing unit with the troops
at my disposal?

In a message dated 6/21/99 10:53:30 AM EST, G.T.Perkins@exeter.ac.uk
writes:

<<
Two armour units (i.e.: two units consisting soley of
 vehicles) - however unlikely - end up facing off in urban
terrain. The armour units cannot fire at each other using direct fire weapons
(as it is an urban area) and may not close assault (as only infantry can
initiate a close assault). How can I attack the opposing unit with the troops
at my disposal?
> [quoted text omitted]

I think under those peculiar circumstances, an ammendment to the rule is

necessary either allowing direct fire phases OR allowing one vehicle to "close
assault" another vehicle but NOT infantry or other units

> Perhaps I'm being a little unclear, to clarify:

Good point...........ermmmmmmmm.........I don't know to be honest.:)

Next:)

> > Perhaps I'm being a little unclear, to clarify:

Where does it say that you can't use direct fire weapons in a urban area. I
looked in the rules but could not find it. If it does say that somewhere, you
could use the "vehicle fire at vehicles in a close assault rule" where fire is
treated as an IAVR. Personally I think you can fight in urban
areas, just give everything a secondary die for being in "soft-cover" or
"prepared positions", assume only vehicles within 18" or some other arbitrary
range of each other have LOS.

I don't have my rulebook with me, but I did explore this when I was designing
my forces last year.
> From memory, when in urban terrain, you use similar rules as the
Anyway, there is something there, except it's obscure to find as it's not in
the urban or the assault sections.

'Neath Southern Skies - http://users.mcmedia.com.au/~denian/
Commodore Alfred K Hole - RNS Indy's Folly [CB]
Captain Nicolette O'Teen - RNMS Golden Spear [CB]
EBD Medusa

> -----Original Message-----

Christopher K Smith

> Where does it say that you can't use direct fire weapons in a urban
where
> fire is treated as an IAVR. Personally I think you can fight in
or
> "prepared positions", assume only vehicles within 18" or some other

The reason you can't fight as usual in urban areas is that lines of
sight are extremely limited (except perhaps in some very well-planned
villa areas - though I've never seen one). I think you'd be fine if you
cut all LOS to 200m or less (usually much less) - ie, DSII game terms
to =< 2", which is close assault range or less; weapon damages wouldn't be
reduced within that 2" range, although hit probabilities may be.

Regards,

> Where does it say that you can't use direct fire weapons in a urban

DS2 rulebook, pp.46 "Combat in urban areas" second paragraph: "No direct fire
combat or infantry ranged firefights are permitted inside urban areas".

You forget the rest of it (I found the references I was after): Pg 46: "Combat
in Urban Areas: Any combat between units in Urban areas is treated as a Close
Assault action, and is fought out using the Close Assault
rules on PP 34/35"
Pg 35: "Vehicles involved in Close Assaults may fire with APSWs at enemy
infantry, OR may fire at any opposing vehicles in the Assault AS IF THEY
CARRIED IAVRs."

So with vehicles fighting vehicles in an Urban environment, it doesn't matter
what weaponry you've got, and vehicles can close assault vehicles, although I
suppose the defender failing their morale test would mean that they were
psyched into thinking something bigger than them was coming down the street.

'Neath Southern Skies - http://users.mcmedia.com.au/~denian/
Commodore Alfred K Hole - RNS Indy's Folly [CB]
Captain Nicolette O'Teen - RNMS Golden Spear [CB]
EBD Medusa

> -----Original Message-----

> Pg 35: "Vehicles involved in Close Assaults may fire with APSWs at

Which is why Alarishi troops are Powered Armor and Heavy Powered Armor (size
1 combat walkers).  Inside the asteroid, it's _all_ urban environment,
and Size 1 Mechs are a lot more maneuverable than Size 5 MBT's. (Thanks to
John Atkinson for pointing this out to me).