DSII motorcycles/grav bikes

Does anyone treat motorcycles as cavalry, or does everyone treat them as Size
1 Vehicles?

I would treat motorcycles [heck I've even got some Irrgular VC on bicycles] as
calverly.  Doesn't seem to be worth the hassle/cost to design a vehicle.

> Does anyone treat motorcycles as cavalry, or does everyone treat them

Personally, if they only carry 1 man then I treat them as cavalry otherwise
they are size1 vehicles.

The only reason I could come up with, was that a size 1 vehicle would make an
inexpensive scout (fast and expendable).

Thanks Aron,

> The only reason I could come up with, was that a size 1 vehicle would
Not unless your like one of my opponents who often puts DFFG 2's
or GMS/H's on his class 1 bikes :/

I think you're right size 1 scouts do have they're place. They are fast and
cheap, I love 'em... hard to hit [d12 signature] and pesky, even a RFAC 1 can
pull a boom. However, for certain applications infantry are better suited
[holding built up areas, etc].	 It seems as though cavalry [there
spelled it right that time] share the traits of infantry [5 hits to kill and
so on] coupled with good mobility [8?].

Bobby Mock <bobbymock@juno.com> on 02/15/2000 12:06:38 PM

Please respond to gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU

To:   gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
cc:    (bcc: Aron Clark/AM/Avid)
Subject:  Re: DSII motorcycles/grav bikes

The only reason I could come up with, was that a size 1 vehicle would make an
inexpensive scout (fast and expendable).

In a message dated 2/15/00 2:07:42 PM Central Standard Time,
> bobbymock@juno.com writes:

<< The only reason I could come up with, was that a size 1 vehicle would make
an inexpensive scout (fast and expendable).

Thanks Aron,
 Bobby
> [quoted text omitted]

If you have a copy of the Renegade Legion RPG take a look at the Marine
Assault Sled - that's one I'm going to scratch build for Star Grunt!

> If you have a copy of the Renegade Legion RPG take a look at the

I just bought a Star Wars 25mm STAP droid. I was thinking of taking one of my
Starship troopers and attaching him to the STAP, to use for a grav scout
vehicle.

> At 08:10 PM 2/15/2000 +0000, you wrote:

Hehehe, GMTA!  I prefer a HEL/2 or a GMS/H for the Vyper Jetbike
conversions, since it fits in to my "theme" of using Grav vehicles almost
exclusively.  For 99 points you get a size 1 grav scout with a HEL/2,
APSW, superior FiCon, superior ECM, and ablative armor (drop the ablative
armor and the cost only goes down 2 points).

Put these in teams of 3 and use them for flanking units at range. The fixed
weapon mount is less important the further out you get.

As bikes.  Several people did bike/cavalry rules 2 years ago, but I've
been thinking off and on since then. After some thinking, I thought the
following might work out.

Bike Movement: 12/d12x2
Cavalry Movement: 10/d10x2 (don't have the stamina of a bike)
Benefits: the rider gains a +1 armour shift from the protection afforded
by the mount. Bikes can also use personal weapons on fixed mounts
(ARs/SAWs/GMS-Ps etc)
Drawbacks: cavalry/bikes can only fire out to 1 range band unless they
dismount or have fixed weapons on the bike, due to aiming difficulties.

Neath Southern Skies - http://users.mcmedia.com.au/~denian/
[mkw] Admiral Peter Rollins; Task Force Zulu
[pirates] Prince Rupert Raspberry; Base Commander

> -----Original Message-----

Thanks for the input Aron. I think I will use my one man bikes as cavalry and
my two man bikes as size 1 recon units.

Thanks again for all the input,

Bobby

> On Tue, 15 Feb 2000 12:14:42 -0800 Aron_Clark@digidesign.com writes:

> Robertson, Brendan wrote:
...Snip...JTL
> Bike Movement: 12/d12x2
Brendan, I would like you to reconsider the move rates for bike an horse.
Perhaps develop a 'road' and 'cross country' rate for each. I think the
concept of firing a weapon while riding a bike is just
increadably funny.   I can just see the guy with the GMS-P on the
handlebar post, firing at the tank down the road, naturally I hope
he was wearing his codpiece at the time!   This sort of thing can
only be done from a horse, as the horse will not (normally) run into things
while the rider is aiming in another direction.

:-)

Bye for now,

One the ex-army guys I know told me about a night exercise once where
they mounted 2 x 50 cal machine guns onto a bike & loaded it with tracer.
Apparently it looked very impressive as the rider swerved & negotiated the
terrain, so it can be done.

Neath Southern Skies - http://users.mcmedia.com.au/~denian/
[mkw] Admiral Peter Rollins; Task Force Zulu
[pirates] Prince Rupert Raspberry; Base Commander

> -----Original Message-----

I've always thought motorcycle cavalry/"Light Horse" Infantry would be a

good idea. But the book seems to indicate these are horse soldiers. So why not
come up with a motorized cavalry, a little more expensive and slightly faster
than the cavalry now listed in the rules?

Brian Bilderback

"The Irish are the only race of people on Earth for which psychoanalysis is of
no use."

                                 - S. Freud

----Original Message Follows----
From: Bobby Mock <bobbymock@juno.com>
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU

While we're talking about infantry types, has anyone come up with some good
stats for non-powered armor jump/bounce infantry, a la
Battletech/RenLeg?

See DSII rulebook for "para-dropped" troops, or similar subject.

"Brian Bilderback" <bbilderback@hotmail.com> on 02/15/2000 04:34:16 PM

Please respond to gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU

To:   gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
cc:    (bcc: Aron Clark/AM/Avid)
Subject:  Re: DSII motorcycles/grav bikes

While we're talking about infantry types, has anyone come up with some good
stats for non-powered armor jump/bounce infantry, a la
Battletech/RenLeg?

Sled-mounted infantry could probably use the stats for a jump unit like
the kind I just asked about. I seem to recall some stats for this kind of
stuff on Andy Cowell's page.

----Original Message Follows----
From: Popeyesays@aol.com
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
Subject: Re: DSII motorcycles/grav bikes
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 15:14:49 EST

In a message dated 2/15/00 2:07:42 PM Central Standard Time,
> bobbymock@juno.com writes:

<< The only reason I could come up with, was that a size 1 vehicle would make
an inexpensive scout (fast and expendable).

Thanks Aron,
  Bobby
> [quoted text omitted]

If you have a copy of the Renegade Legion RPG take a look at the Marine
Assault Sled - that's one I'm going to scratch build for Star Grunt!

They weren't known for accepting whether it would work properly or not;
although the same guys once decided to combat dismount 3 bikes from an APC
(can't remember what type, but they lowered the ramp while moving, & drove
out as soon as it turned around).   These guys weren't the sanest (from
a civilian point of view) from the various stories I've heard.

Neath Southern Skies - http://users.mcmedia.com.au/~denian/
[mkw] Admiral Peter Rollins; Task Force Zulu
[pirates] Prince Rupert Raspberry; Base Commander

> -----Original Message-----

> > Apparently it looked very impressive as the rider swerved &

> > > he was wearing his codpiece at the time! This sort of thing can

In a message dated 2/15/00 5:50:12 PM Central Standard Time,
> john_t_leary@pronetusa.net writes:

<< This sort of thing can only be done from a horse, as the horse will not
(normally) run into things while the rider is aiming in another direction.
> [quoted text omitted]

The average horse cannot tolerate gunshots without considerable training much
less the WHOOOOOOOOOSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! of a rocket launcher, not to mention the
heat of the backblast.

That just covers their insertion, not their mobility once they've arrived...

Brian B

----Original Message Follows----
From: Aron_Clark@digidesign.com
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
Subject: Re: DSII motorcycles/grav bikes
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 16:35:38 -0800

See DSII rulebook for "para-dropped" troops, or similar subject.

"Brian Bilderback" <bbilderback@hotmail.com> on 02/15/2000 04:34:16 PM

Please respond to gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU

To:   gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
cc:    (bcc: Aron Clark/AM/Avid)
Subject:  Re: DSII motorcycles/grav bikes

While we're talking about infantry types, has anyone come up with some good
stats for non-powered armor jump/bounce infantry, a la
Battletech/RenLeg?

er, Brendan, I think your ex-army friend was perhaps embellishing a
little bit.....two.50 Cals on a two wheel bike? AND ammo? I've had to carry
these
things (helping the APC crew de-service a vefhicle) and I honestly don't
believe you could successfully mount two of them on a motorcycle......

Owen G

> -----Original Message-----

In a message dated 2/15/00 7:19:21 PM Central Standard Time,
> bbilderback@hotmail.com writes:

<< That just covers their insertion, not their mobility once they've
arrived... >>

What were the criteria for cavalry/bicycle/motorcycle infantry. They
were mobile beyond the troopies' ability to walk, they could CARRY much
greater weights. Once they got to the battlefield (in the face of modern
firepower) they'd better get the heck off of those conveyances because they
just increased their target size in the face of firepower. SO utilize the good
aspects of it and don't try any saber waving charges unless you want your
troops to vanish in a concentrated puff of gunsmoke. The big advantage to
bicycle troops in Malaysa (where the Japanese used them heavily) was not just
that the infantryman could ride it, but you could put a couple hundred pounds
of supplies and comestibles on the bicycle and PUSH it just about anywhere as
fast as your little legs could carry. The horses could
also pack 81/107 or 120mm mortars, .50MG's and much heavier ordnance
than they could otherwise pack. SO: getting TO the battlefield carrying MORE
is
the objective of the horse/bicycle/motorcycle infantryman above anything
else
- once he's there, he's leg infantry

Recon is a little different of course.

Good points all, if I had been referring to cavalry here. I had digressed from
cavalry onto the topic of infantry (line or militia) equipped with Grav
or jet bounce/jump packs, a la certain FASA game systems...

----Original Message Follows----
From: Popeyesays@aol.com
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
Subject: Re: DSII motorcycles/grav bikes
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 20:26:05 EST

In a message dated 2/15/00 7:19:21 PM Central Standard Time,
> bbilderback@hotmail.com writes:

<< That just covers their insertion, not their mobility once they've
arrived... >>

What were the criteria for cavalry/bicycle/motorcycle infantry. They
were mobile beyond the troopies' ability to walk, they could CARRY much
greater weights. Once they got to the battlefield (in the face of modern
firepower) they'd better get the heck off of those conveyances because they
just increased their target size in the face of firepower. SO utilize the good
aspects of it and don't try any saber waving charges unless you want your
troops to vanish in a concentrated puff of gunsmoke. The big advantage to
bicycle troops in Malaysa (where the Japanese used them heavily) was not just
that the infantryman could ride it, but you could put a couple hundred pounds
of supplies and comestibles on the bicycle and PUSH it just about anywhere as
fast as your little legs could carry. The horses could
also pack 81/107 or 120mm mortars, .50MG's and much heavier ordnance
than they could otherwise pack. SO: getting TO the battlefield carrying MORE
is
the objective of the horse/bicycle/motorcycle infantryman above anything

else
- once he's there, he's leg infantry

Recon is a little different of course.

In a message dated 2/15/00 8:09:27 PM Central Standard Time,
> bbilderback@hotmail.com writes:

<< Good points all, if I had been referring to cavalry here. I had digressed
from cavalry onto the topic of infantry (line or militia) equipped with Grav
 or jet bounce/jump packs, a la certain FASA game systems...
> [quoted text omitted]

i would have to admit to playing BOTH FASA games you imply here.

> Robertson, Brendan wrote:

     Are you certain that he said 'two fifty-cal' and not '2 5.0 gal'
cans of frosty. (Fosters)

:-)

Two Fifty cal HBMG weigh 192+ pounds and two cans of 50 cal linked ammo
(100 rds ea.) weigh 60.5 lbs. This plus mountings and rider would put
the load at around 500 pounds on a bike.   Not very likely. (But we are
talking about residents of Oz) :-)  )

Two.30 SAW with belts I can believe! That the comment was made after some
frosties, I believe!

:-)

Bye for now,

> Bobby wrote:

I treat them as fractional size vehicles in DSII, with rules from my site.

I have about 2 score of motorcycles that I purchased (I think from Scotia).

I use them as cavalry. I give the bikes High Mobility Wheeled movement (10").
But I rule that they may not fire if moving faster than Power Armor speed
(6"). And allow them to enter woods at infantry speeds (2").

This works great for what I intend them to be: scouts, spotters, and couriers.
I usually have them in units of 1 or 2 elements. I also allow them the spacing
of vehicles (3") within the unit.

[quoted original message omitted]

Must be 30 cals then. I'm a civilian & never had to lug either type around,
so tend to pick the more impressive one. ;-)  Either way, they were
loaded
with belt-fed tracer (red, blue & yellow I think).

Neath Southern Skies - http://users.mcmedia.com.au/~denian/
[mkw] Admiral Peter Rollins; Task Force Zulu
[pirates] Prince Rupert Raspberry; Base Commander

> -----Original Message-----

In a message dated 2/15/00 10:38:27 PM Central Standard Time,
> Brendan.Robertson@dva.gov.au writes:

<< Must be 30 cals then. I'm a civilian & never had to lug either type around,
 so tend to pick the more impressive one. ;-)  Either way, they were
loaded
 with belt-fed tracer (red, blue & yellow I think). >>

Generally speaking all tracer is the same color - it's just a blob of
phophorus at the hollow base of the projectile which ignites as it leaves the
barrel - Tracer is rather strange to watch firing as the round burns a
path like a little skyrocket and the round flies anything but true.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. We've all been there, my

son....

----Original Message Follows----
From: Popeyesays@aol.com
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
Subject: Re: DSII motorcycles/grav bikes
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 21:20:48 EST

In a message dated 2/15/00 8:09:27 PM Central Standard Time,
> bbilderback@hotmail.com writes:

<< Good points all, if I had been referring to cavalry here. I had digressed
from cavalry onto the topic of infantry (line or militia) equipped with Grav
  or jet bounce/jump packs, a la certain FASA game systems...
> [quoted text omitted]

i would have to admit to playing BOTH FASA games you imply here.

> On 15-Feb-00 at 22:56, John Leary (john_t_leary@pronetusa.net) wrote:

500 pounds, on a Gold-Wing?  No big deal.  500 pounds on the
Brazilian bike that uses the engine out of the old VW Beatle? No problem. You
might even be able to do 500 pounds on a big Harley. There are severel
suggestions though, the 50 cals would need to be mounted low. I'm not sure I'd
want to deal with the kick, and don't ever drop the thing. It's going to take
3 people to pick it up.