I had a couple of ideas/questions concerning DSII. This time, they're
all about the game and it's rules, not their comparison to real life (as we
know it, Jim). Here goes, feel free to answer:
How do other players (besides myself) determine how many ADS vehicles to
deploy? Do you attach them to support units, tank units, or saend them out on
their own with an escort or two? When not starting hidden, do you usually
start the game with them activated, and only turn them off when they start to
draw a crowd, or start with them off and activate them once the flies
start buzzing?
How many specialized Spotter elements do most people deploy per artillery
battery available?
It seems to me that under most circumstances, the only actions besides
movement that ADS vehicles take during their OWN activation is to 1: Turn the
ADS on 2: Turn the ADS off 3: Tell the ADS they have a headache (sorry) er 3:
Fire an inactive ADS as a RFAC. They seem to be busiest during ENEMY
activations (reasonable). According to the rules, an ADS while activated can
respond to attacks even after it's unit has used it's activation. So I had an
idea, let's see what everyone else thinks: Train your ADS crews in Artillery
spotting. That way, if, on their activation, their ADS is already on and they
want to LEAVE it on, they're available to use to call in arty. I think it's
legal, but I suspect it's also mildly cheesy. Input?
Other than that, I'm considering training NONE of my HBT/MBT crews in
artillery spotting, training ONE of my APC crews per platoon, and training ALL
of the crews in my mechanized recce platoons. Is this about right, or
overkill?
Lastly, a comment. I was rummaging through the used bins at my local gaming
store today, picked up some cool vehicles. Found a T-80, trimmed off the
barrels, cut the barrel to make it a HEL, voila! a new tank. Anyway, the
most interesting thing I found was this little round piece of plastic, about
the size of an American or Canadian.25 coin. Cast on top of it was this
little tiny village - almost exactly in DSII groundscale. You can make
out a road that splits in the middle of town, a stone bridge over a small
stream, a mill, a church, a farm complex with a stone wall and a ploughed
field, and a couple other buildings. It's tiny (the Soviet Sagger BRDM I
picked up looms over it like an OGRE), but cool. I figure if I put it on the
map, It's so small I'd have to treat it as one building for game rules. Does
anyone
know what game it came from? There were a few there. I only bought
one, the only one that had been painted. But if anyone else wants one, let me
know. I'm sure I could pick the other 2 or 3 up for less than a dollar.
> Brian Bilderback wrote:
But I try to match DSII rules to real life! :-)
> How do other players (besides myself) determine how many ADS vehicles
I deploy them in pairs to make a unit. I also don't bother using them to
protect other units against GMS.
> Do you attach them to support units, tank units,...
No. I would put a unit near artillery or other valuable support elements.
> or send them out on their own with an escort or two?
Drive 'em onto a nearby hill and sit them there, out of weapon's range of my
opponent.
> When not starting hidden, do you usually start the game with them
They start activated, because Aerospace can and does strike in the very first
turn in our games. BTW, in my games, stealth is just advanced
manufacturing technology, _not_ electronic camouflage. Therefore ADS can
have effective stealth.
> How many specialized Spotter elements do most people deploy per
I'm not decided yet. I've been using one vehicle with artillery spotter
capability, carrying one infantry team with artillery spotter capability.
> It seems to me that under most circumstances, the only actions besides
Turn the ADS on 2: Turn the ADS off 3: Tell the ADS they have a headache
(sorry) er 3: Fire an inactive ADS as a RFAC. They seem to be busiest during
ENEMY activations (reasonable). According to the rules, an ADS while activated
can respond to attacks even after it's unit has used it's activation. So I had
an idea, let's see what everyone else thinks: Train your ADS crews in
Artillery spotting. That way, if, on their activation, their ADS is already on
and they want to LEAVE it on, they're available to use to call in arty. I
think it's legal, but I suspect it's also mildly cheesy. Input?
It's a reasonable idea. But it's I believe it's better to be able to move the
artillery observer independently of the ADS.
> Other than that, I'm considering training NONE of my HBT/MBT crews in
Probably overkill. Recall that on page 39 of DSII that unit leaders can call
in artillery as their combat action.
I hope this helps.
Thanks, Andy. I've slipped my responses into your message:
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Andrew Martin" <Al.Bri@xtra.co.nz>
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
To: <gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Re: DSII Ideas/questions: ADS, FO's,
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 20:30:58 +1200
> Brian Bilderback wrote:
But I try to match DSII rules to real life! :-)
BBack: Yes, but in this case, I wanted to know specifically about applying the
rules to the game in order to play....
I deploy them in pairs to make a unit. I also don't bother using them to
protect other units against GMS. BBack: And how many pirs do you deploy? What
ratio to other units do you use to determine this?
> Do you attach them to support units, tank units,...
No. I would put a unit near artillery or other valuable support elements.
BBack: Right now, I've got one attached to every artillery unit, one to the
command unit, and one to my heavy support platoon to use as general protection
for my forces.
> or send them out on their own with an escort or two?
Drive 'em onto a nearby hill and sit them there, out of weapon's range of my
opponent.
BBack: The trick is KEEPING your enemy out of weapon's range of them, yet
still keeping the ADS' close enough to the action to deal with air units
attacking your forward forces.
> When not starting hidden, do you usually start the game with them
They start activated, because Aerospace can and does strike in the very first
turn in our games.
BBack: This is what I'd been leaning towards.
BTW, in my games, stealth is just advanced
manufacturing technology, _not_ electronic camouflage. Therefore ADS can
have effective stealth.
BBack: I've got some issues with that. I mean, these suckers are emitting
radio waves like mad. It seems to me the rules are reasonable, because I'm
sure that by then you could design your fire control systems with the
technology to track those signals (effectively turning every tank's main gun
into a HARM).
> How many specialized Spotter elements do most people deploy per
I'm not decided yet. I've been using one vehicle with artillery spotter
capability, carrying one infantry team with artillery spotter capability.
BBack: I'm leaning towards keeping my vehicle-based spotters and my
infantry spotters separate, just to avoid the "Eggs in one basket" syndrome.
It's a reasonable idea. But it's I believe it's better to be able to move the
artillery observer independently of the ADS.
BBack: True, and that's why I wouldn't use the ADS crews as my ONLY artillery
spotters, but it does seem a nice way to give yourself an added asset for
minimal disruption to other units' tactical missions.
Probably overkill. Recall that on page 39 of DSII that unit leaders can call
in artillery as their combat action.
BBack: True, but not as effectively as dedicated FO teams. I may decide not
to train any HBT/MBT/APC/MICV crews, but instead stick with the recon
units and maybe some infantry FO teams as part of the infantry platoons.
I hope this helps.
BBack: As always, yes.
> Andrew wrote:
> BBack wrote:
Usually enough to cover the table approximately, or my forces, but no
more than about 1/10 of my total force (in vehicles).
> Andrew wrote:
> BBack wrote:
You do have a point here. I've failed to consider main guns versus
active ADS/ZAD. This is because I'm normally taking out ADS/ZAD with
"tossed" DFO or GMS/3, not with main guns, so this hasn't been/become a
concern to me. It's a good point. I'm going to have to do some work on this
point. At the moment, the quickest and nicest way is for the main gun firer to
roll
the ADS/ZAD quality in addition to their fire control dice versus the
ADS/ZAD size.
I'm pretty sure these are from the GW Mighty Empires set. There are also
castles and cities, but you're right they are very small. - Aron
"Brian Bilderback" <bbilderback@hotmail.com> on 04/01/2000 10:35:32 PM
Please respond to gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
cc: (bcc: Aron Clark/AM/Avid)
Subject: DSII Ideas/questions: ADS, FO's,
Anyway, the most interesting thing I found was this little round piece of
plastic, about the size of an American or Canadian.25 coin. Cast on top of it
was this
little tiny village - almost exactly in DSII groundscale. You can make
out a road that splits in the middle of town, a stone bridge over a small
stream, a mill, a church, a farm complex with a stone wall and a ploughed
field, and a couple other buildings. It's tiny (the Soviet Sagger BRDM I
picked up looms over it like an OGRE), but cool. I figure if I put it on the
map, It's so small I'd have to treat it as one building for game rules. Does
anyone
know what game it came from? There were a few there. I only bought
one, the only one that had been painted. But if anyone else wants one, let me
know. I'm sure I could pick the other 2 or 3 up for less than a dollar.
Brian B
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Andrew Martin" <Al.Bri@xtra.co.nz>
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
To: <gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Re: DSII Ideas/questions: ADS, FO's,
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 21:22:16 +1200
> Andrew wrote:
BBack: Oh, I'll use them for that purpose as the opportunity arises, but I
doubt I'll be deploying them specifically for that duty.
Usually enough to cover the table approximately, or my forces, but no
more than about 1/10 of my total force (in vehicles).
BBack:Sounds reasonable.
You do have a point here. I've failed to consider main guns versus
active ADS/ZAD. This is because I'm normally taking out ADS/ZAD with
"tossed" DFO or GMS/3, not with main guns, so this hasn't been/become a
concern to me. It's a good point. I'm going to have to do some work on this
point. At the moment, the quickest and nicest way is for the main gun firer to
roll
the ADS/ZAD quality in addition to their fire control dice versus the
ADS/ZAD size.
BBack: It's not just main guns, my point was, with the ADS emitting radar over
God Only Knows how many frequencies, it has to be pretty easy for weapons and
firecons of all shapes and sizes to pick them up in that
spectrum, regardless of HOW much their paint masks the IR/UV/Visible
spectrums....
Cool. They make some neat figures, and some really silly ones. I have no
opinion on their rules, I've never played.
BBack
----Original Message Follows----
From: Aron_Clark@digidesign.com
Reply-To: gzg-l@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU
> Brian Bilderback wrote:
I'm going to have to do some more work on EM, ECM and ECCM for DSII.