DSII and SGII turn length (FT notes)

2 posts ยท May 9 1999 to May 10 1999

From: djwj <djwj@e...>

Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 12:09:20 -0600

Subject: Re: DSII and SGII turn length (FT notes)

> St. St. St. Jon wrote:

Well, what we actually said in both SG and DS was that if you needed to work
out roughly how long an overall DS or SG battle had taken in game time
(for reasons of campaign time, movement of reinforcements and off-table
units, etc.), then you should consider each turn to have represented
approximately 5 minutes (SG) or 15 (DS). What this DOESN'T mean is that each
game turn contains 5 (or 15) minutes worth of movement, combat or
whatever - in fact the actions of each turn probably only occupy a small
fraction of this; it is an attempt to reflect the fact that most battles
contain variable periods of relative inactivity ("hurry up and wait") between
short flurries of action. For the purposes of the individual game
turn, the timescale is not really important or relevant - especially as
the whole turn sequence is an artificial abstraction to make the game
function!
*********
I understand this, and I realise that the entire thing is an abstraction. My
point is twofold. One: the topic came up in discussing Full Thrust speed
(namely that "jinking" off sensors would plaster the crew to the wall, and
just how long is 1 " in space anyways.) The fact that the entire turn length
is an abstracion means you cannot say what the speed/ranges are for full
thrust when compared with the DSII turn length no matter how well you may have
memorised astrophysics. Two:If you do determine speeds in FT with the turn
length in DSII then in DSII a vehicle in easy movement should be able to cross
the entire table, and then some (about 3 more tables), in one turn. While
everyone else is "hurrying up and waiting" they are hauling a** along the
highway. And what commander is "Hurrying up and waiting" while forces are
passing him on said freeway?

I understand that the length of the turn varies from turn to turn so that an
event like I described only happens in a 1.2 minute turn (Civ wheeled at easy
move: 97kph (60 mph) at 20meters per turn) but if anyone is going to figure
speeds and ranges for FT it needs to be based off the more accurate "real
world" speeds for DSII not the abstracted turn lengths. Comparing turn lengths
and speeds is a proverbial "apples and oranges" proposition. Besides the
abstracted turn length in FT may be 15 min with their own "Hurry up and wait"
but that still dosen't tell you how much of that time ships are actually
moving, or firing.

However, as to the turn length PTB (Pseudo-Tactical B***s***.
P.Strategic B. would work as well but might be confused with P.Scientific B.)
in DSII: The text says (and SGII is similar) "...most real combat consists of
sudden bursts of frantic firefight seperated by long periods of movement,
scouting and general inactivity...". On table: if your forces aren't scouting,
or moving "in game", then there is no scouting or moving going on. And tell
"general inactivity" to a recon infantry platoon in mid scouting run, ducking
under MBT crossfire. Under fire markes alone have given my SGII forces
reasonable "general inactivity" for their missions, which are typically "fast"
strike and reconnisance objectives. Any more abstracted waiting and they would
take far too long to accomplish their mission goals to be useful to a larger
force.

From: Owen Glover <oglover@b...>

Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 21:31:01 +1000

Subject: RE: DSII and SGII turn length (FT notes)

Well, I'm getting a little lost in the argument here.

Most games of SGII we play last around 12 turns or so; approx 1 hour of 'real
time'. For the terrain represented on a 6'x4' board (720mx480m) this
has about the right feel for a platoon/sub-company level action. Given
the time it takes from first contact, platoon commanders recon and quick
orders, position fire support, move to assault position, conduct the assualt
and
re-org on/off the objective the game length seems to work out about
right.

Consider a SG squad that doesn't move for two turns. There is still activity
going on in 'real time'; section 2IC checking the SAWs spare ammo, controlled
stores check (still got that Starlight Joey?), sect comd giving a quick brief
or repositioning a fireteam, a quick navigation check, radio
checks and of course fireteams scanning/marking their arcs and checking
out the next patch of ground that they will likely be moving over. Gee that's
a lot of things going on that we don't see at the 'god level' at the table
top.

Quite honestly, the SG time length seems quite reasonable.

My 2cents worth,

Owen G

> -----Original Message-----

[BIG SNIP]

> On table: if your forces aren't