From: Thomas Barclay <Thomas.Barclay@s...>
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 03:34:08 -0400
Subject: DS2/SG2 harminization - replies to Brian and Andrew
Re snipers: Andrew, your interpretation seems to represent only the snipers with a HAMR. Many sniper teams do not use a HAMR (they are heavy, aren't probably as accurate for mid range shooting, and probably can't be silenced though I'm not positive on that last). Most teams use something like the US M-24 (I think that's the new one) which is a modified Remington 700. An excellent weapon. In the future, I can see Gauss rifles and Laser rifles being used. Sniper ops can involve taking out material targets (transformers, AA assets, etc) but they can involve the simple task of removing enemy snipers, enemy units blocking an advance in built up terrain or fortifications, and for pinning an enemy that is advancing towards you. And they do kill valuable junior officers and noncoms. I'm going to think about combining some of what you wrote with some of what I wrote, since we both appear to have part of the puzzle. I'm not sure there is any reason to suggest that a HAVR/HAMR is capable of shooting 1.5x that of an APSW. I think the longest sniper shot on record I'm aware of (By Carlos Hatchock, multiple shots required, using a sandbagged.50 M2HB) was well over 1200m, but I think most military sniping is actually conducted (even AM stuff) at 100-400m (with preference on 100m if you can get that close). I hadn't realized the SF snipers liked to shoot from that close, but as Los pointed out to me, beyond that, windage and movement of target etc. start to introduce a decent chance of a miss. You _can_ make 800m shots, but it is hardly SOP. My reason for suggesting dummy counters can't move is that I don't think hidden snipers in SG2 can..... As for how a sniper team plays on the game.... they'd usually be an attachment at (at the minimum) company level, but more likely battalion. A battalion might have 3-6 2 man teams. But sniper ops really fall into a variety of categories depending on the operational doctrine of the force using them. In some cases, like the French, they stick "marksmen" (which aren't really full fledged snipers) in their line squads. In other cases, like some of the US Marine Divisions in Vietnam, the snipers were given lots of independence and ran their own missions quite often with other support elements to support them (a squad for security and sometimes air and arty on call - snipers make good spotters). I'd think in the DS2 model, they'd be attached directly to the battlegroup commander, thus justifying them as a whole separate unit on the board, and probably you would not see more than 2 or 3 teams present _at_most_ because the forces on a DS2 board tend to be company or reinforced company size, rarely reaching battalion size. Plus that freedom frees them from unit integrity issues with other units, which is good given they'll be able to fire over a fair distance thus they can stay outside of enemy infantry fire range. Re Brians comments on GMS/P: I get the impression from Oerjan (unless he cares to pipe up) that a GMS/P has about the same warhead as GMS/L, only the sighting and propulsion behind it is different. Ergo range is probably the big factor (I'd bet many shoulder fired missiles can't reach 2400m due to the inability to target or the lack of fuel). I'd be tempted to keep the range to 18". 24" makes them very dangerous. Anyone know what the range for a Javelin is today? The problem here is that even with some improvement in propellent technology, you've still go the weight/size trade off (vs. range) that makes a GMS/P a normal squad weapon. For longer range, you NEED the Heavy Weapon because it contains the fuel! So we have (or should probalby have): IAVR short range (400-600m), punchy (2 chits), immune to ECM or EW (but should be stoppable by PDS according to Oerjan). Troop can carry multiples of these and use them for close in tank defence. GMS/P longer range (1800m), punchy (2 chits), affected by ECM, PDS, ADS and EW. Troop can put one of these in a big squad and fire it in place of squad fire (like an IAVR) but has limited shots. Can also be put in two man teams. GMS/L real long range (3600m) (for infantry... still only middling for vehicle range weaponry), punchy (3 chits), affected by ECM, PDS, ADS, EW. Troop can have one of these with tripod in place of normal infantry weapons (retain close in defence weapons). Limited shots. Can't really be put in a normal rifle squad as an "alternate weapon" as it is just a bit too big (as is the ammo). Yes, I agree GMS/P should be limited in number of shots (3 or 4) and that they should be affected by PDS and ECM and ADS etc. I'd suggest the 2 man GMS/P team I suggested with 4 shots should probably cost 10/15/20 (for various guidance levels). This little team would only take 3 HTK and have close combat only weapons. Putting a GMS/P into a normal rifle squad (with say 4 shots) might add another 5/10/15 to the cost of the rifle team (expensive, but you're getting a team capable of GMS fire, IAVR fire, squad rifle fire, and close combat). As for EW, you make a couple of good points in terms of limiting range (12" in DS2 is fine with me) and in saying that you should have to see a GMS shot fired to jam it (though I note this is _NOT_ a requirement in SG2 - justification being I guess the prevalent nature of sensors on the battlefield). I'll look at cobbling something together with this input you've given me shortly. Then of course, post it so the lions can rip at it.:)