DS2/SG2 Camouflage

One problem with a realistic cammo job is that it obscures the detail on the
minis. I had some really nice looking GHQ minis, painted them the

I would like to know what other people are using for camouflage on thier
DS2/SG2 vehicles (and/or figures). I have been using a Mountain
Stone/Urban camouflage scheme for my one force (see my DS2 page for a
picture*), but need to choose a 2nd scheme, so that I have an obvious 2nd
side. Thus, the inquiry as to what camouflage schemes are being used. Also, if
someone could recogmend a good reference book for other camouflage schemes.

I just use a block stripe yellow/jungle green pattern on my DS2tanks &
SG2 vehicles. It looks reasonably good, as long as you don't have the edges
too close to parallel. (Funnily enough, it's from the EE Imperial Guard
codex.)

'Neath Southern Skies
http://users.mcmedia.com.au/~denian/
*********************
Mary had a little LAM, It's thrusters all aglow; And everywhere that Mary
went, The 'Mechs were sure to blow.

> -----Original Message-----

> On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Brian Bell wrote:

> I would like to know what other people are using for camouflage on

When I began painting my ds2 vehicles, I used a wide variety of colors and
patterns for experimentation. Most of these are jungle/woodland
green/brown schemes - basic and easy...One of the different combos I
came
up with: reddish brown/rust and dark green - very striking.

Now that I'm settling into an 'standard' TO&E with blocks of identical
vehicles, I'm using mostly a dark brown & dark green camo, or a lighter brown
& dark green varient, all in stripes or blotches as with regular
camo...

Desert camo & tiger-stripe designs are something I want to play with as
well - my SG2 vehicles, being larger, have a more complex camo sheme -
dark green with thin light brown stripes, scattered with short black streaks.
Very nice, but too complex for ds2...

Books/resources: Another poster mentioned the EE Imp. Gaurd Codex as a
good source for interesting camo schemes - there are some good ones. I
also saw a big coffee-table book called 'Camoflage Schemes of the World'
or something like that - had entries for the whole 20th Century, from
lots of countries, mostly b & w photos but some big, full page color plates as
well...nice. There's always the Osprey books, as well - ww2 and modern.

One military organization that did some interesting camoflauge work was
the Waffen-SS, later in ww2. Lots of tiger-stripe, fleck and very
complex
schemes - my SG2 vehicles camo is very loosely based on some SS
camo...Their politics and ethics sucked, but the camo schemes are worth a
look.

One pet peeve I have w/ a lot of SF combat - fiction and games - is the
lack of attention paid to camo - I mean, bright red APCs with silver
thingies on the sides? Just paint TARGET on your armour and be done with
it, ok? Even David Drake is guilty of this - his Hammer's Slammers have
_metallic_ finishes on their armour...My point is this: In nearly any
enviroment, regardless of tech level, there will be _some_ point were
the old Mk. 1 eyeball is being used for detection and targetting. If $100 of
paint will save a $1,000,000 tank, who _isn't_ going to paint the damn
thing?

(Ok, rants over. You can look up now...)

My $0.02,

On Tue, 24 Feb 1998 19:45:17 +0000 Brian Bell <Brian.Bell@axom.com>
writes:
> I would like to know what other people are using for camouflage on

Islamic Federation: Light Infantry: Desert Sand jackets, olive drab pants,
white keffiyeh, brown leather boots and belts Power armor infantry: Medium
brown with dark brown trim. I'm thinking of
repainting them, though, to a standard desert-camo scheme.
Vehicles: Desert yellow with a brown ink wash over the whole thing. (Actually,
I don't like the way this came out, so I'll probably repaint
it).

New Anglian Confederation or Israeli Defense Force: Light Infantry: Olive drab
or medium brown fatigues with darker colored trim. Power armor: Tiger stripe.
Vehicles: Woodland camo

Pan African Union: similar to NAC, with different trim details. Mostly
differentiated by the manufacturer (they're Grenadier figures, so look
distinctly different).

I know I've got more troops. I've been collecting for a *lot* of years and
have recently been organizing them for SGII. This is all I can think of at the
moment, though.

Oh, and as for the urban camouflage, I've got a unit of Traveller
Imperial Marines painted up like that; it looks real nice. My ship-board
troops are going to be done up that way, I think.

> On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Brian Bell wrote:

> 2nd side. Thus, the inquiry as to what camouflage schemes are being

I've started painting a squad of NSL Power Armour troopies in an arctic cam
scheme. It's white base with sparse, largish blobs of ParthaPaints' Slate
colour. For some good cam ideas, check out the Dream Pod 9 WWW site (makers of
Jovian Chronicles and Heavy Gear): www.dp9.com. Somewhere in there is a
listing of northern and southern HG cam schemes.

The other squad I've started is a NAC squad in a "broken" scheme.
Basically Citadel Snakebite Leather with black-and-tan double dots.

Tom gives a lot of great advice here. As an aside, I feel that future camo
will probably be along the line of chameleon or stealth suits with synthetic
fibers and materials able to take on the color of surrounding terrain. Not so
much a predator thing but more like a natural chameleon look. Of course this
is no help to the mini painter because you're pretty much stuck with the one
pattern you end up painting. For practical purposes, just look at the terrain
you have available on your tabletop. So this way you don't have desert vehicle
on your predominantly plush green wargaming table.

Actually myself I'm now contemplating ordering some desert Geohex maps. I
already have three green ones and one space one.

Here are some easy to get books for real life examples of camoflage:

Osprey Elite #26: Tank War Central Front: NATO vs Warsaw.

Squadron Panzer Colors I, II, & III. I and II give good examples of paint
schemes used by the germans in WWII. III covers mostly unit markings.

Check out Jane Defense Weekly, a periodical from Janes Publishing. I haven't
looked at one in a while, but it was usually full of ads from arms
manufactures.

> Also, if someone could recogmend a good reference book for other
Arms and Armour Press have a good series of books on WWII armour
camouflage and markings - Blitzkreig (1939-40, Poland, the Low
Countries and the Fall of France), Eastern Front (1941-45, Russia,
Finland etc) and another for Western Europe 1944-45. These cover both
sides of the conflict in their respective theatres. The Finns, Poles, French
and Germans all had some great schemes.

Some good replies on this interesting topic

I did see a TV article on using bright light as camoflage
It showed a sky-lined tank covered with bright lights and
at a distance you just couldn't see it, sort of active dazzle pattern.

Regarding chamelon skins, the humble cuttlefish has a much more felxible
system that allows it to change color so rapidly it flashes. It has small
vacuoules of pigment in its skin which it can expand rapidly. By combining
these it can cover a huge range of colors and patterns.

for painiting lots of AFV at 6mm, I have tried various schemes and techniques

Using air brush masks is difficult to get a clean effect.
I also wrapped the mini in a net-curtain with a non regular
pattern and sprayed it. the results unusual pattern scheme. Air brushes can
produce interesting spatter schemes if you use lower air pressure or thicker
paint. Other experiments
where using foam tip make-up brushes for splodge patterns.

In the end the best results were by hand painting the scheme with a brush. I
derived and abstracted NATO and WARSAW pact type schemes as they were simple.

Basically woodland green and black big stripes with brown and white
highlights, to match my scenery hues. To differentiate side I use slightly
different hues and patterns.

I plan to create a desert set and an ice set, using
simple sand/pink and white/grey combinations. As
this is a lot of metal its going to be a
base/wash/drybrush scheme.

Brian - your picture at
http://www.axom.com/bkb/ds2main.html
is too dark to see any detail but the light squiggles, looks like a lot of
work although a very nice effect.

IIRC GZG used to do a painting service on their 25mm stuff and they had a nice
futuristic blob on a base cote scheme which you can make out in the old
catalogues and rule books.

sincerely

Personally I like bright paint jobs and tend towards the theory of the
electronic battlefield doing away with camouflage. Hence I have an Aboriginal
dot art colour scheme on my Dirtside force (they are OUDF after all) and have
also done individual vehicles for display in 'Liqourice Allsorts' colours,
Mondrian primary colours (for an updated Artists Rifles) and a Heavy Metal
Brigade in various metallic paints. I like to hang a
theme on the unit, this is sci-fi after all, not reallity.

On the subject of real cammo though Brasseys do an excellent uniform book on
cammo since 1918. Excellent even though it is rather expensive. I'm told their
other uniform books are pretty damn good too.

Nic Robson

> At 05:54 PM 2/24/98 +1000, you wrote:

> On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Brian Burger wrote:

> One pet peeve I have w/ a lot of SF combat - fiction and games - is

Really depends on the background. For example, I do about half my wargaming in
the Battletech universe. Because most BattleMech pilots survive a 'kill,'
knowing who knocked you out of the fight has a certain psychological component
to you. Thus bright, easily identifiable paint schemes are fairly common. Same
thing goes for elite units and units which fight on honor principles. On top
of that, because of the mobility of the force and the potential to drop
anywhere on a planet, you can't be guaranteed your battleground of choice.

But 'Mech combat does use a visual component, so less renown units and
planetary militias often do use appropriate camo patterns. Also, since mobile
armor is fairly fragile when compared to 'Mechs, armor units also use camo
quite a bit.

I rarely paint in camo just because I don't get much out of painting camo.
Painting is half the enjoyment I get out of the hobby. When I do use camo,
it's often in garish colors. For example, I'm starting to paint a
bunch of units for an alien DSII army.  It's based around the anti-grav
tanks from Renegade Legion and the old EE Eldar plastic tanks. I'm basing the
color schemes around tropical fish schemes. Clownfish and similar schemes will
be fairly standard (white base with bright orange splotching with black lines
at the transition point). Pink, purples, yellows and light blues will
dominate. Sure, it's hardly realistic but it will catch the eye when it's
finished.

> On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Brian Bell wrote:

Brassey's Book of Camouflage should be available from most good military
bookshops. Mainly uniform rather than AFV camo, but very useful nonetheless.

> W. Nitsche wrote:

> On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Brian Burger wrote:

<snip>

> light blues will dominate. Sure, it's hardly realistic but it will

Realistic? In a universe of supposedly billions of worlds (mostly undiscovered
of couse...), purple on flourescent yellow will be considered camo SOMEWHERE!!

hehe

On Thursday, February 26, 1998 12:28 PM, Soul Assassin
[SMTP:scylla@omeganet.es]
wrote:
> Realistic? In a universe of supposedly billions of worlds (mostly

Look no further than our own solar system, Isn't Io the moon of jupiter
covered in yellow sulphur see

http://btpdx1.phy.uni-bayreuth.de/solar/galio.htm

purple on yellow would do nicely (suphur goes purple when heated). Ditto
Europa for winter schemes.

Tim spake thusly upon matters weighty:

> >> Realistic? In a universe of supposedly billions of worlds (mostly

However, the troublemaker in me feels necessary to point out that I wouldn't
be fighting on Io without a full environmental suit (since otherwise I'd be
choking and dying....).... so the troops in conventional uniforms or half
armour wouldn't do so well there....

:) Tom