[DS2] Heavy Gears, redux . . .

Greetings, folks!

Thanks for all of the comments and feedback on my "how to convert" question re
the Heavy Gear walkers. One of the reasons I was trying to fit them
into the current design rules is to make them "legal" for pick-up type
games. However, it just isn't going to work out that way <g>, so I figured I'd
try and come up with the "closest approximation" that stayed true to the
technology.

Here's some response to the feedback I've received.

1) Size. Someone suggested that Gears are more properly Size 2 vehicle instead
of Size 1. On further thought, I will have to agree with this.
Looking back over the VCS - Heavy Gear's vehicle construction system, a
Gear is roughly equivalent to an ACP/IFV in armor strength, and is
firmly in the "over 4m" height range.

This also solves the size / number of weapons limit problem for at least
the basic Hunter & Jaeger, since they have 2 main anti-armor weapons and
1
anti-infantry weapon.

2) Rocket Packs as Multiple Launcher Packs. Sorry, but this just doesn't
fit <g>.  The LRP/MRP/HRP in Heavy Gear is primarily an anti-armor /
anti-gear weapon, and actually does more damage than the cannons do.
They are not infantry support weapons, so trying to fit them into the MLP or
APSW role doesn't work. I think that I've come up with an interesting
solution, which I'll outline below.

3) Power plants. Gears are run by CFEs. In fact, one of their attractions
is their low cost, and their V-engine CFE is a significant part of this.
Saying that they need an FGP and then costing them out as such removes this
advantage.

OK, here's some of the conversion rules I've come up with. I'll be
interested in seeing how they playtest out. :-)

==================================================================
Heavy Gears for DS2

Gears are small combat walkers with a single pilot. They have a very
sophisticated processing unit that handles most of the balancing and targeting
requirements, allowing the pilot to handle the Gear as if it were a large,
oversized suit of Power Armor. Gears range in size from 4 to 5 meters in
height.

Movement: Gears have two different movement rates. The slower rate uses the
Combat Walker movement rules, while the higher rate uses the High
Mobility Wheeled movement rules.  This reflects the Primary/Secondary
movement systems used in the original HG game. Cost for the dual movement
system is 120%.

Movement Rates:
   Cheetahs:               12/16
   Iguanas:                10/14
   Hunters & Jaegers:       8/12
   Jaguars & Black Mambas: 10/14
   Grizzlys & Cobras:       6/10

Movement Damage: Gears must specify which movement system they are using for
the turn, and must use that system for the whole turn. Movement damage chits
affect the currently active system only.

Power Plants:  Most Gears are run by highly efficient V-Engines, which
equate to CFEs in DS2 but cost out at 25%. Stealth Gears use superconducting
battery packs, which are equivalent to HMTs.

Size: Most Gears are on the small size of Size 2. Grizzlys and Cobras are a
small Size 3, while striders are either Size 3 (Nagas) or 4 (Mammoths).

Armor: Armor on a Gear is the same strength on all sides, and is considered to
be equal to the size rating. The exception to this is the Black Mamba,
which has a -1 armor rating in its direct Rear arc only.

Weapon Mounts: Gears are allowed one hand-held weapon.  This weapon is
treated as Fixed Mount for design purposes, but has a 180 degree arc of fire
as per the normal Combat walker rules. All other major weapons are also Fixed
Mount, but only have a 90 degree fire arc. This represents the fact that they
are torso mounted, and you have to turn the entire torso to
aim them.  Anti-infantry weapons are Fixed Mount / 180 degree arc per
the normal Combat Walker rules.

Weapon Conversions: Here is a partial list of weapon equivalencies.

  Auto-Cannons (disposable/light/medium/heavy)
DPG: RFAC size 2, treat all "3" chits as "0", cost 7 LAC: RFAC size 2, treat
all "3" chits as "1", cost 8 MAC: RFAC size 2, treat all "3" chits as "2",
cost 9 HAC: RFAC size 2

  Rocket Packs (light/medium/heavy)
    LRP: SLAM size 2, treat all "3" chits as "2", Range 8"/16"/24", cost
16
    MRP: SLAM size 2, Range 8"/16"/24", cost 20
HRP: SLAM size 3

  Anti-Personel Grenade Launchers (APGL)
Same as APSW, except that Jaguars and Black Mambas have a 360 degree arc of
fire, while all others have only a 180 degree front arc.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Standard Configurations: There are 4 basic types of Heavy Gears from each
faction. The standard Northern Gears are the Cheetah (scout), Hunter (GP
trooper), Jaguar (advanced tech trooper), and Grizzly (fire support). Their
Southern equivalents are the Iguana, Jaeger, Black Mamba, and (Spitting)
Cobra. With the exception of the Cheetah and Iguana scout gears, the
equivalent gears from both sides are almost identical in function as far as
DS2 mechanics are concerned and are listed as such.

Cheetah Heavy Gear - Northern scout gear
----------------------------------------
Size Class: 2
Signature:   3 (d8)
Stealth:     level 1 (reduces signature to 2)
Mobility:    Combat Walker / High Mobility wheeled
Basic Move:  12 / 16
Point Value: 100
Firecon:     advanced (d8)
ECM: none Armor: 2 (*see note) Weapons: DPG, LRP, APGL

*Armor Note: Opponents hitting a Cheetah with a weapon of Size 2 or greater
draw +1 damage chit.

Iguana Heavy Gear - Southern scout/light trooper gear
-----------------------------------------------------
Size Class: 2
Signature:   3 (d8)
Stealth:     level 1 (reduces signature to 2)
Mobility:    Combat Walker / High Mobility wheeled
Basic Move:  10 / 14
Point Value: 100
Firecon:     advanced (d8)
ECM: none Armor: 2 Weapons: DPG, LRP, APGL

Hunter/Jaeger Heavy Gear - GP trooper gear
------------------------------------------
Size Class: 2
Signature:   3 (d8)
Stealth:     none
Mobility:    Combat Walker / High Mobility wheeled
Basic Move:  8 / 12
Point Value: 61
Firecon:     advanced (d8)
ECM: none Armor: 2 Weapons: LAC, LRP, APGL

Jaguar/Black Mamba Heavy Gear - advanced tech trooper gear
----------------------------------------------------------
Size Class: 2
Signature:   3 (d8)
Stealth:     level 1  (reduces signature to 2)
Mobility:    Combat Walker / High Mobility wheeled
Basic Move:  10 / 14
Point Value: 125
Firecon:     superior (d10)
ECM: basic (d6) Armor: 2 (*see note) Weapons: MAC, MRP, APGL

*Armor note: The Black Mamba has Class 1 armor in the direct rear (60 degree)
arc only.

Grizzly/Cobra Heavy Gear - fire support gear

> At 04:24 PM 2/4/00 -0800, MWS wrote:
question
> re the Heavy Gear walkers. One of the reasons I was trying to fit them

Yup.  It is possible to make them more-or-less legal, but then they're
not as close to the universe. So... it's a balancing act.

> 1) Size. Someone suggested that Gears are more properly Size 2 vehicle

Well... not the case, for the scout and GP gears. I still stand by those as
being closer to size 1.

> This also solves the size / number of weapons limit problem for at

Yeah, but that is, in my experience, the first restriction to get tossed out
the airlock. (Um, wait, that's a space metaphor... out the window, yeah.) I
don't think I've ever designed vehicles that follow that restriction in the
game, unless it was by accident (or an APC, since troops take up a lot of
space).

Points 2) and 3) covered below....

> ==================================================================

I'd argue for a slightly higher cost, since HMW is 30% and combat walker is
100%. Yes, I know Gears are supposed to be cheap, but this is going to give
you a definite bonus in the game... I'd say (cost of more expensive
system)+(150% cost of less expensive system) as a general basis, so 145%
cost for the dual movement system.

This could also let you play with making the heavier Gears fast tracked
instead of wheeled; HG itself doesn't make the distinction, but the heavier
Gears *do* use tracks. Plus it opens up using transport walker movement for
some of the striders, for example. (Hard to see a Mammoth or Fire Dragon doing
a Run move, in my mind.)

> Movement Rates:

Mmm... fair enough, I suppose, though there's no reason not to just take the
movement levels for the respective Gears from HG, e.g. Griz would have
6/11, Cheetah 11/15, instead of rounding whichever way.

> Movement Damage: Gears must specify which movement system they are

That's one reason why I think they should pay extra for it, not get a
discount. Besides, you have to pay extra for it in the HG design rules,
too....

> Power Plants: Most Gears are run by highly efficient V-Engines, which

Any Gear using a laser/particle beam will also need an HMT-equivalent
engine, to pay for the rechargable battery packs for the weapons. (Though I
did dig up a Kodiak design I made some time ago, and I'd used an MDC for the
particle beam, instead of a laser. This was also where I costed the movement
system out as being more expensive, per above.)

> Size: Most Gears are on the small size of Size 2. Grizzlys and Cobras

...maybe. I'd strip one away from each of those, with the exception of the
Naga. We'll see; this could be a point to jsut disagree on and leave it at
that.

> Armor: Armor on a Gear is the same strength on all sides, and is

The Glass Back strikes again, though with the rear-arc penalties in the
game that may be something to just apply in general: one level lower from the
top and rear. (Unlike DSII in general, which is 1 arc lower from top, rear and
sides.)

> Weapon Mounts: Gears are allowed one hand-held weapon. This weapon is

There are exceptions to this as well; the Hunter Zerstorer comes to mind.
Besides, the Gears can switch hand weapons, if so equipped -- DPGs, for
example.

> Weapon Conversions: Here is a partial list of weapon equivalencies.

What's wrong with calling these out as RFAC/1s?

> MAC: RFAC size 2, treat all "3" chits as "2", cost 9

Technically doesn't exist, but that's one rule I was considering breaking as
well. (SLAMs less than size 3, that is.) The range mods should work,
though you could also try a SLAM/1 at 4/8/12" ranges.  (No, it's not
going
to do a lot of damage -- why should it?)  I know you said above that the
pods were the "heavy hitters", but that's still relative; in order to hurt the
bigger, better defended Gears you've built, you've had to up the strength of
the weaponry as well, such that it is now becoming overly effective against
the tanks that Gears normally have a *lot* of trouble against. (Trust me,
that's a battle I've fought a few times.) Rocket pods are *not* a tankbusting
weapon, and if they have to be used as such your Gear is in *entirely* the
wrong place.

On the flip side, I think I have talked myself away from calling scout and the
GP gears only size:1, if only to be able to fit the tankbusting equipment
certain models will carry. (E.g., the 106mm snub cannon on the Assault
Hunter....) Maybe... for the Hunter, anyway, since the armor difference with
the Cheetah is pretty significant. (Okay, okay, I admit it: I'm a Northie in
the game, I don't look at the Southern Gears much. Except as targets....)

> HRP: SLAM size 3

I guess this is one reason to make the Heavies size:3; you need the space for
the SLAMs! Not sure I like it that much, though, since they're now becoming
*way* more effective against tanks than they should be.

> Anti-Personel Grenade Launchers (APGL)

Instead, take two APSWs and specify one as covering the rear arc, the other
the front arc. No sense in tying it down to only specifc Gear models.
Especially since it is only the Mamba that has this, not the Jaguar.

> -------------------------------------------------------------------

On the contrary -- the scout Gears (both Cheetah and Iggy) are the
primary
easy-to-get ECM carriers.  Of course, it doesn't have quite the same
effect over the whole table in DS as it does in HG, but in HG I know the ECM
*definitely* keeps those guided missiles away a little better....

> Armor: 2 (*see note)

Is this (and the level 1 stealth) just for general increased survivability?

> Armor: 2 (*see note)

d6....

> Stealth: none

Well... overall, it's neat, but isn't something I'd field against any force
not designed under that same system. I'll also stand by my statements that
you're making the Gears *too* effective, and too large.

Well, more to follow, in my own post.  Might as well re-write what I'd
had to begin with....

> Yeah, but that is, in my experience, the first restriction to

Defenestration: a window of opportunity

In a message dated 2/5/00 5:05:40 PM Central Standard Time,
> laserlight@quixnet.net writes:

<< Defenestration: a window of opportunity >>

For some...

> Laserlight wrote: