A few of us were talking about a modification for Dirtside, I took it upon
myself to follow it up. A quick (very quick, so if I missed something please
let me know) scan of the Net did not turn up anything so I crafted the
following. I tried to keep the modifications within the logical bounds of
the DS standard rules - modified only to reflect great physical
capabilities
and greater training/devotion to battle.
We have NOT playtested these yet, but are planning to soon. Our biggest
questions, so far, are about the point costing.
Any other feedback would be welcomed.
GENETICALLY ENHANCED (GE) LINE INFANTRY are rare elite forces, highly trained,
and literally designed and bred for combat. Think of the Saurons of the Battle
World book series, the Nietschians of the Andromeda TV series, or (some other
example that escapes me at present). These troops are equipped with modern
weaponry and combat armor, but on the whole still rely on APCs or IFVs for
transport. This category of infantry denotes not only the level of equipment
used by the troops, but also their capabilities.
As with all infantry elements, TEAMS of men on a single base represent these
forces. The types of Teams possible are:
GE LINE INFANTRY is the basic element of a GE unit. It consists of four or
five troopers equipped with Personal Arms ("rifles") and IAVRS. Most such
teams will also contain a light team-support weapon (an LMG or
equivalent)
this is NOT considered a separate weapon for firepower purposes - its
effect is factored into the overall "personal arms" firepower of the team.
These Teams are much more highly trained than normal Line elements, and as
such, have additional abilities:
* Any non-command GE Rifle Team can request artillery fire, rolling as
if it were a command element with a leadership rating of 3.
* Due to their fierce hand-to-hand combat abilities any GE Rifle Team
is
treated as an ASSAULT TEAM in Close-Assault actions, but may participate
in Ranged Firefight combat normally When determining costs for a unit, GE
Rifle Teams are worth 100 points.
A GE APSW TEAM is a two or three man element carrying an Anti-Personnel
Support Weapon (e.g., a heavy MG, automatic grenade launcher, or
equivalent). This weapon team only carries Close-defense personal
weapons in
addition to the APSW. Any non-command GE APSW Team can request artillery
fire, rolling as if it were a command element with a leadership rating of 3.
When determining costs for a unit, GE APSW Teams are worth 110 points.
A GE ANTI-ARMOR TEAM is a two or three man element carrying a GMS/L for
anti-tank usage (fire Con for the GMS/L is always considered to be
SUPERIOR). This Team only carries Close-defense personal weapons in
addition. Any non-command GE Anti-Armor Team can request artillery fire,
rolling as if it were a command element with a leadership rating of 3.
When determining costs for a unit, GE Anti-Armor Teams are worth 130
points.
A GE LOCAL AIR DEFENSE TEAM is a two or three man element carrying a LAD
System for anti-air usage (such as a light AA Missile launcher). This
Team
only carries Close-defense personal weapons in addition. GE LAD Teams
cannot request artillery fire.
When determining costs for a unit, GE LAD Teams are worth 115 points.
GE forces do not utilize Powered Armor. They see it as a sign of weakness and
vulnerability for the "norms" to have to rely on such equipment. MOVEMENT Due
to their enhanced physique and stamina GE Infantry elements posses superior
movement over regular infantry. BASE MOVEMENT = 4.
INFANTRY FIREFIGHTS
=====================
GE Line Infantry effective firefight range is 8". GE APSW effective firefight
range is 12".
Before any fire is resolved, the entire UNIT must check for fire
effectiveness, per the usual rules, the result of the die roll however is
different for GE troops:
Score is LESS THAN the unit's LEADERSHIP number:
Fire is PARTIALLY EFFECTIVE; HALF* of the elements in the firing unit may draw
chits for fire effect; the target unit receives an UNDER FIRE marker.
Score is EQUAL TO OR GREATER THAN the Leadership number:
Fire is FULLY EFFECTIVE; ALL elements firing may draw chits for fire effect;
the target units receives an UNDER FIRE marker.
GE elements draw THREE chits when determining firefight results.
A GE element is destroyed by a total of 5 valid damage points, due to their
enhanced physical capabilities.
G'day Noel,
> When determining costs for a unit,
I'm assuming you use the DS infantry costings as rated as a basis for this,
not an "updated" version right? Just having a quick glance at them (so sorry
if I've goofed here) they look like super PA (PA range, damage capacity) that
can range fire close assault and call in artillery. On top of that their
effectiveness is greater. If you're going with that I'd say something closer
to 140pts is probably more appropriate, though 100 would be OK if you
drop the artillery observer ability - which I'm not sure I agree with
anyway. Another thing that came to mind is, why they should get 5 damage
capacity? I agree that their "enhanced ability" may make them move and fire
further with greater accuracy but I can't see why it should give them an
armoured hide... they still bleed right? I don't know the references you gave
so sorry if I'm barking up the wrong tree here. Personally (so feel free to
ignore) I would've gone for something more like the following for a GE rifle
squad:
Confidence as you state More effective fire as you state 8" range close combat
and ranged fire ability
I just think you're trying to do too much with one squad.
> A GE APSW TEAM...(GE ANTI-ARMOR TEAM)
Once again I'd drop the artillery observer ability and then your costings
would be about what I'd say off the top of my head.
> A GE LOCAL AIR DEFENSE TEAM ...
I would've said about the same.
Do you intend on writing up any "history" for these guys?
I'd love to hear how they play out.
Cheers
***
but I can't see why it should give them an armoured hide... they still bleed
right? I don't know the references you gave so sorry if I'm barking up the
wrong tree here.
***
One staple of some literature, though I've not seen the Battleworld stuff, is
a greater control of bodily functions. I'm thinking of Hindu Fakirs capable of
stopping bleeding consciously.
Not overwhelming on the modern battlefield; fried, cut in half, even tapped by
a really powerful round, and you won't have the consciousness to use, but it'd
make the difference 'tween incapacitated and another few rounds of action. I
don't know DSII well enough to tell how big a difference the description is.
I generally find 'ubermensch' distasteful in any game. It's nice if someone is
really big, then he's slow. If someone is really fast, then he's fragile.
David Gerrold's Morthans notwithstanding.
I assume that any troops the NAC are going to transport across the ether is
going to be DAMN good by any standard.
Going to another bit of source, in the TSR Buck Rogers board game, and I think
the first RPG, 'gennies' were brewed up for a particular environment. You
tried to move one from Mercury to Venus, it not only didn't do well in the new
locale, it just died.
Optimized humans, via training and equipment, vs. engineered, were the
great jack-o-all-trades we assume them to be.
Vachead blithering ceasing...
The_Beast
I really have to agree with this... Even the Dorsai, in spite of the fact they
first appeared as, I believe
"The Genetic General" with a bred super-soldier blurb on the cover, were
in fact just well-trained men.
And it is a proven fact that John Wayne could take out any other soldier
anyway, genetically superior or not.
> devans@uneb.edu wrote:
[quoted original message omitted]
G'day again,
> First, it is meant reflect a much higher degree
I think there's a fair bit of that in the effectiveness, confidence, close
assault and ranged abilities.
> Second, it is meant to make
OK I may be speaking out of turn here, but (a) DS is a tank game primarily so
its not so surprising that infantry aren't as huge a threat (especially if not
too much other infantry on the board for them to engage). (b) Being a player
who has a very infantry dominated force (well PA dominated... I'm talking
about my Daleks here) it really depends how you use them... I do it be setting
things on fire, giving the odd ones lads,
anti-vehicle capability and by letting them get dropped behind enemy
lines... nothing more frustrating than for a tank crew to find that their one
"safe" objective just got occupied by VTOL delivered infantry...it can take an
age for tanks etc to weddle them out;)
> I restricted the average element to the d6 simply as a
That is some concession, but personally I still wouldn't have it in, but
that's just me.
> Evans nailed this one. The GEs would
I think he also had a point about having to be in one piece to get to use
those abilities;) To me the resolution of DS kind of makes it hard to capture
this facet of what you're after. If you're really stuck on the idea try 4
chits instead of 5, I still think a guy in full PA is gonna be harder to take
down than a flesh and blood human no matter what his lineage or training.
> For game play, I see them as an
That can have more to do with being insane than tough;)
> Thanks for the comments.
No worries;)
[quoted original message omitted]
G'day,
> And you make a fine argument at that.
Cool well let us know how it goes.
> I do see PA and GE abilities as comparable.
OK then to be a pain in the neck <like that's new;)> why bother with the GE?;P
I know its fun...I was meaning that if you're going to have something
different make it different;)
> Shots that would wing an unarmored
Yes and no. Guess it depends on your vision of what genetically modified
humans could do... a leg or arm mashed by the impact of a bullet/laser
etc is gonna be mashed no matter how you look at it and how determined you are
that its gonna work;)
I haven't read much sci-fi and am relying on my vertebrate zool courses
here, so I may not have the right picture... that's why I was arguing a cut
artery, smashed bone is gonna stop you whether you've had your genes twiddled
or not. The reason I was envisaging PA as harder to knock out is because they
have more armour in the first place not necessarily because the suit holds
them up more once they're hit.
> This is pretty significant compared to normal line
True enough, that's why I'd suggest they need 4 hits to take them out, that
can be pretty tough to actually do in practice.
> We will probably stick with 5 for our first
Cool.
> I have been wrong before. :)
So have I;)
Cheers
From: Noel Weer <noel.weer@verizon.net>
> GENETICALLY ENHANCED (GE) LINE INFANTRY are rare elite forces,
Two examples spring to mind: The Domination of the Draka Motie warriors from
The Mote in God's Eye
> Noel Weer wrote:
For those in the UK, Rogue Trooper from 2000AD is probably the definitive
example. I also remember Dream Pod 9's Heavy Gear game has
G.E.I's in it (under a different name - I think they call them GRELs)
left behind by an invading earth force trying to take back it's colony worlds.
They actually go as far as having several 'castes' of differently engineered
infantry for different tasks.
TTFN
Jon
I will chime in here (after donning power armor).
Damage: I could see 4 chits. They are tougher than normal humans, and a squad
can still function with less members than an unenhanced human squad. They
probably still wear the best non-powered armor available.
Threat Level Reduction: I could see this also for the same reasons. The squad
knows that it can do more than the equivilent normal squad. However, Power
Armor (PA) also know this and do not get this benifit. So I would suggest a
different ploy. Make some counters for a new level of confidence (Stupid?
Unflapable? Unshakeable? Cocky?) that is the same a confident, but reduces to
confident at the first confidence loss (alternatly place 2 confident markers
and remove the 1st at the first confidence loss).
Fatigue:
Start the GEI at +1 confidence level for thier level of fatigue to
reflect
increased endurance/motivation. (See Threat Level Reduction, above, as
how to deal with above confident).
Range: I would not mess with the range. Abstracting down from SG already gives
infantry greatly enhanced range.
Close Assault: I would add a caveat that they do NOT get this ability when
facing Close Assault squads. Reasoning: Part of the effectiveness of CA squads
is that they are equiped with weapons specifically for close assault
(automatic shotguns, flamethrowers, etc.).
Artillery Calls: I would give them this only if they have a dedicated
artillery unit assigned to them. Otherwise the artilery unit will be
overwhelmed with calls and opt for the higher command request. Of course,
dedicating an artillery unit to a platoon would give this benifit to any unit
to which it is dedicated (assuming the troops are minimally trained for
artillery calls).
Movement: I agree 4 would reflect increased endurance.
Quality: I imagine that they would, generally, have Veteran (or at least
Regular) quality. If you also have SG2, you may want to option in Superior
quality for some units.
NBC Resistance: Increased resistance to Radiation, Chemical, and Biologic
agenst would reduce the effects on them. Treat GEI as dug in for nuclear
attacks. GEI may
approch to 2" of a nuke site. GEI get +1 for Nuclear and Biochem
confidence checks. GEI are treated as suited for entering Biochem and
Radiation areas.
Costs would have to play-tested out.
---
Subject: RE: [DS] Genetically Enhanced Infantry
> Damage:
Make
> some counters for a new level of confidence (Stupid? Unflapable?
I'd have to wonder how much of this is genetics and how much is
selection/training. My friends and acquaintances who are SEALs and
Rangers
are pretty normal-looking guys. Sure, they're in shape, but none of
them are Schwarzenegger clones. Where they differ from the general population
is
simply determination--they won't give up merely because the job's
impossible.
Of course, if they're also trained from childhood, the genetics may not
matter than much--they may all be veterans/elites simply because they've
had 15 years training before they're 18. I would give them the same specs as
veteran/elite infantry but no more. Of course, that doesn't make them
*different* from normal infantry (as far as flavor goes), just better.
BTW, for an interesting but rarely mentioned combination of genetics and
training, you may want to read Courtship Rite by Donald Kingsbury.
> Noel Weer wrote:
And let us not forget, the Jem Haddar (?)...
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G'day,
> NBC Resistance:
OK I can live with them being "modified" to cope with biochem but nukes??
Radiation is radiation regardless of how you're engineered. I seriously doubt
anything as complex as a human, engineered or not, is going to be able to
shrug off the effects of getting to close to the hot zone without being in
protective gear.
I like the idea of introducing GE troops, but I'd be cautious about
overstepping the mark;)