[DS] Detatched HQ elements

> --- Ryan M Gill <rmgill@mindspring.com> wrote:

Detached? How do you work that? Are they seperate units for game purposes and
you just have a mental note that they're usually attached to the HQ? I don't
remember anything in DS about detaching units.

> At 1:31 PM -0700 8/9/01, Jakim Friant wrote:

Well, I say detached. It all occurs prior to the start of the game so it
doesn't really matter game terms wise.

Generally you have a fire support team allocated to a company or battalion
commander. Procedures allow for that FIST[1]track to be attached to the
company or Btn HQ, or to be flexible and on its own. Sometimes I add the FIST
to the command platoon (usually its a FO team attached to the Command Platoon
in mechanized infantry units). Sometimes its a separate track that is
independent (its own platoon level command element) and will move to the best
observation position for support of the fire elements of the company.

The same is true for the Mortar platoons associated with armoured and
mechanized units. Sometimes its attached, usually detached and one of the
stands is nominated as the "command" element for that platoon. Often times if
there is a CBR element attached, that functions as the platoon cmd element.

I've been running the Tank company command platoon as a three vehicle platoon.
One is the Company Commander, and one is the XO and PSG in other tanks. Since
the XO usually rides around in a TOC I've rationalized that the additional
gear isn't necessary and he can ride around like the Coy CO does. I think I
may start breaking them up or detaching individuals as a means of executing
the various jobs those units typically perform. Say if a tank is damaged and
the rest of that platoon has moved forwards, then the PSG or XO would move to
cover that tank while the recovery track moves up to take it under tow or to
repair the damage.

Other units that I typically run as separate elements or as small teams are
recovery engineers and scout teams. Usually the organization of the Division
scout company (for the NAC Scottish Hussars, tank division) is 10 wheeled
Armoured cars (size 2) and 5 more larger armoured cars (size 3) with two
infantry stands within. They operate in trebles, 2 of the size 2s and 1 size
3. As a unit they do pretty well in the assigned role of scouting and
anti-scouting. The dismounts provide a good means of moving to the
front of a tree line before the vehicles move up. When main elements of enemy
forces are identified the scout platoon commander (one of the dismounts) calls
fire (attempts to) and then will break contact if possible. If they find other
scouts, they attempt to destroy them. Usually a tank or Mech platoon will
advance to contact and assist. (You'd be surprised how smoothly that process
can go once you've worked the procedures out to game terms. One of the gamers
in the Atlanta group is an ex light infantryman and liked the way I scouted
and shifted to combat smoothly. "A good example of an advance to contact and
fire drill"...is what he called it I think...

1. FIST, Fire Support Team, typically a Forward observer team attached from
Division or Battalion levels that either coordinates fire support or acts as a
forward observer. Typically it is comprised
of an APC/MICV's worth of personnel. Some of those personnel are
attached to the Company HQ unit, with the vehicle being allocated to act as an
additional command post for the artillery coordination or to act as a FO team
in support of fire units (combat platoons). The arrangement is dependant upon
tactical needs and dispositions of vehicles and space available (sometimes the
CO and a second of the FIST will ride with the CO of the unit, in armoured
units this is difficult as the Coy CO rides in a tank and can't take
additional personnel without compromising the tank's ability to fight, in that
case the 2 additional people ride with the XO or stay in their own track.)

> At 6:28 PM -0700 8/9/01, Don M wrote:

Yep, that's because they can stay in their own vehicle. In leg infantry units
(airborne, light, and Air Assault) The FSO and FIST have to go somewhere else.
Sometimes they have a hummer.

How the FIST is handled/organized/deployed depends on the needs of
the situation and the commander of the unit being supported. In an Armoured
Cav unit, the FSO (and assistant) can't ride with the Coy Commander (unless
he's with the TOC, where the XO usually is...), since he's usually in an M1.
In mech infantry units they have that option. If the FSO is with the Coy cmdr,
he can better advise the Coy commander, however he can't coordinate all of the
activities at the FISTV. However, the FISTV is better able to be used in its
laser designation role. (sometimes they don't have a FISTV, but rather a
regular M113.)

> >or dismount from it forward. The reason for this is the hammerhead

Granted. I wasn't saying that they leave the FIST track behind. I was saying
the above. FSO goes in the Coy Cmdr's track if he can, so as
to better coordinate and advise.   (See FM 6-30, chap 2)

> >on the M-1, although the M-1A2 will have almost the same lazing

Oh granted. The FIST team does have the better capabilities, but in some
situations the FIST (if say they are HMMWV mounted) is better off acting as a
coordination post and relying on the two man FO teams
(which the tank units don't get) with their DMDs and G/VLLD.

***
FIST Fire Support Vehicle
FISTV FIST-Vehicle, a special M113 with a laser target designator on
top, looks like an ITV (Improved Tow Vehicle).
G/VLLD Ground/Vehicular Laser Locator Designator
FSO Fire Support Officer (a LT) DMD Digital Message Device (digital radio
device for communicating fire missions)

> 1. FIST, Fire Support Team, typically a Forward observer team

> Yep, that's because they can stay in their own vehicle. In leg
.
> Oh granted. The FIST team does have the better capabilities, but in

> At 7:52 PM -0700 8/9/01, Don M wrote:

Don't do that with me around. In one of the most simple and elegant games,
I've found ways to make it all complicated and yet not. You should see the mix
of combat engineers and FASCAM missions I can throw into a game.

> > LOL a big sore point at times, we artillerymen often hear from the

Tanks saying Artillerymen are useless in the offense? Umm. Where are the
scouts with the 50 gazillion pre plotted fire missions and TRPs when the tanks
are saying this? Sounds like tankers need to spend more time playing with the
scouts and supporting them (like the germans tended to do and still seem to
do...). Then when their platoon is in waaay over its head with a red force
tank company breathing down it's neck while they try to withdraw under
pressure/fire. Then that FASCAM or ICM mission will come in really
handy...

> Don't do that with me around. In one of the most simple and elegant
LOL
> he has those same tenancies but then he is an Army Engineer......

> At 11:52 PM -0700 8/9/01, Don M wrote:

I've seen his posts and spoken be fore. I've even built a few bits of terrain
for obstacle employment. Mostly just line barbwire (mined or not...up to the
defender), the 10 roll razor wire bundle (what he refer's to as the Satan's
Slinky), and a rather large and heavy log crib.

> > Was said to me by a Captain of armor in the Gulf just prior to

Nice piece of hardware from what I've read. Though the Panzerhaubitz 2000 is
impressive in its 10 rounds in 60 seconds TOT is impressive.

> At 7:49 AM -0700 8/10/01, Don M wrote:

Dunno. We don't always succeed in the GI proof department. Look at the
elevating mechanism on the Bradly, I can't remember the exact procedure, but
you can damage the elevating training mechanism just by getting two tasks out
of order...

Course the Germans can do simple. Look at the Nebelwerfer...

> I've seen his posts and spoken be fore. I've even built a few bits of

> Dunno. We don't always succeed in the GI proof department. Look at