Hello all,
I am normaly a lurker on the list but I need some feedback. I am trying to do
up some air superiority rules for aerospace vehicles. This is what I have so
far:
Here is an off the cuff/back of the envelope idea I have for Air
Superiority in DS. It is a bit simpler than some of the house rules on the
web.
When building an Aerospace vehicle add the following options to the points
value system:
Enhanced Maneuverability +200 points (Aerospace only)
Superior Maneuverability +400 points (Aerospace only)
Note: all aerospace vehicles are assumed to have at least Basic
Maneuverability. However, aerospace vehicles with Basic Maneuverability cannot
be
used for an air superiority mission.
During play you can activate an air superiority element for an air superiority
mission or wait for an opposing aerospace element to activate and "intercept"
it.
To determine if an interception has occurred an opposed die roll is made.
Basic Maneuverability units use a d6, Enhanced d8, and Superior d10. If the
element is "intercepting" an opposing unit being activated shift the die type
down one level (d10 becomes d8, etc.) to represent the unit being vectored in
at the last moment.
Units with external weapons (DFO pods or SLAM packs) have their die type
shifted down as well. Units may jettison their external weapons prior to the
intercept roll and use the normal die type but if they do the external weapons
are unusable for that turn. (or should they loose them for the entire game?)
If the aggressor wins the roll he may attack, if he loses he is unsuccessful
and the opposing unit may perform its turn as normal. If the intercepted unit
rolls double the aggressor's roll he may attempt to attack the aggressor!
Once the interception is worked out the victor may make an attack using the
following weapons:
HEL RAFC MDC GMS
Treat all ranges as Medium where applicable. All other weapons are assumed to
be useless in a dogfight environment.
Well, what do you think? Looking back at it I think there should be an
advantage given to high leadership units (intercept roll shifted up?) but it
isn't bad for a beginner eh?
Looks good.
I would probably make it +20% BPV for enhance & +40% for superior, this
should balance it across all Aerospace sizes (small CAP fighters, big ground
attack fighters). If they jettison their external ground attack ordinance, it
should be permanent, as how do you improve performance without getting rid of
weight?
'Neath Southern Skies
http://users.mcmedia.com.au/~denian/
*****
They seek him here, they seek him there; Those Frenchies seek him everywhere.
Is he in heaven or is he in hell? That damned elusive, Pimpernel.
- 'The Scarlet Pimpernel', Baroness Emma Orkzy
[quoted original message omitted]
> Ndege Diamond wrote:
<snip>
> When building an Aerospace vehicle add the following options to the
I think that you may be oversimplifying this a bit. My impression
would be that any air-to-air combat would depend on at least
four factors: pilot quality, sensor quality, weapons quality as well as
vehicle maneouvrability. I do like the simplicity of what you're suggesting,
but at the very least pilot quality should come into play. I guess it depends
on how important you consider aerospace operations to be.
Other than that, your rules seem quite reasonable and playable,
if a bit WWI/WWII-ish.
> Units with external weapons (DFO pods or SLAM packs) have their die
The entire game. For a ground attack aircraft to jettison its external
ordinance (unless on its intended target;)) means an effectively failed
mission.
> If the aggressor wins the roll he may attack, if he loses he is
This should depend on the intercepted vehicles current mission. If the
interpected vehicle is on a ground attack mission, then he should have to roll
double, but if he is also on a air superiority mission, then the
higher roller should get the shot.
> Once the interception is worked out the victor may make an attack using
HEL has no medium range. I would say that the effective firecon die should
depend on the target's maneouvrability, i.e. for basic man., use regular med.
range die (close for HEL), for enh. man., shift die type down once, for sup.
man., shift die down twice.
> All other weapons are assumed to be useless in a dogfight environment.
Fair enough.
> Well, what do you think? Looking back at it I think there should be an
but
> it isn't bad for a beginner eh?
Definitely should include the effects of pilot quality. No it's not bad at
all! In fact, it has some great ideas!
> Ndege "vectored thrust" Diamond
Cheers,
Of course there is always my set of simple rules on my site. Andrew Martin
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[quoted original message omitted]
I'd just like to add an aircraft type which is modelled after the Raptors in
my story. They are not intended for spaceborne operations. These fighters are
maximized for air ops and ground support. They can carry a heavier payload
than spaceborne fighters and can interface from space on their first mission
to the planet with the help of an interface pack which limits their normal
payload by
50%.
They cannot operate in space per se, iother than conduct the interface. On the
ground they have superior manueverability at half teh cost of a spaceborne
fighter. They are VTOL and can operate from unimporved strips with limited
support. The Raptor carries a RAFC and a GMS AAM (the KLosrait) which can
guide via IR or radar.The krait has a normal engagement range of 30km, which
is halved against the Kra'Vak in the early part of the war. The Krait is
capable of being launched 70 degrees offbore. 4 are carried in internal bays
on the side of the
A/C.
For air to ground operations the Raptor has an internal bay which can carrier
8x1000 lb bombs of Hellfire GMS/M in a rotary launcher. The Raptor also
has four external hardpoint where it can carry an additional eight Hellfires
or 4 1000lb bombs. These can be either gravity bombs, CBUs, or or LGBs. The
hellfires can be
configures for anti-area defense.
The advantage that the Raptor has over it's spaceborn cousins is a higher
payload, greater loiter time, and greater resistance to ground fire. because
it can oprtate from unimproved fields with limited maintenace for longer
poeriods,
it's a much better support A/C for extended operatins.They're also
cheaper than their spaceborne cousins.
The disadvantages are no spaceborne capabilities so they are not suitable for
quick strike operations. They filled a niche role in the miltary aviatoin
market.
So the stats are something like:?
Raptor Air Superiority fighter.
Size: 3 (2) - Stealth 1.
Powerplant: HMT (Technically, it's a FPP for DS/SG)
Movement: Aerospace/VTOL
Armour: 3/2
RFAC/2 (Forward - AA - Enh) - 4
GMS/L (AA - Sup); [Krait AAM] - 2
GMS/H (AG - Enh); [Hellfire GMSM] - 4+1 (extra 4 missiles)
External Payload - 4 (GMS/H (AG-enh), freefall bomb load or interface
module)
I don't have DS or SG with me, so this is from memory with some rules tweaks
(the extra ammo).
Unless you're using an in-house weapon system, there isn't currently a
GMS/M; only /L or /H.
'Neath Southern Skies
http://users.mcmedia.com.au/~denian/
*****
They seek him here, they seek him there; Those Frenchies seek him everywhere.
Is he in heaven or is he in hell? That damned elusive, Pimpernel.
- 'The Scarlet Pimpernel', Baroness Emma Orkzy
[quoted original message omitted]
Interception of Aerospace units To simulate aerospace fighter defence against
aerospace ground attacks, aerospace units can interrupt each other's turn.
This works as follows: While one player is moving an aerospace unit across the
table before or after the attack sequence, the second player has the option of
calling out: "Intercept!". If the second player does so, the first player
ceases moving his unit. The second player moves his aerospace unit as usual,
with the target being the first player's aerospace unit only. Naturally, the
first player's Zone Area Defence and Local Area Defence all have their
opportunity to attack as normal as the second player's aerospace unit moves
across the table. Also, the first player has the opportunity to
counter-intercept the second player's movement.
Once the second player's aerospace unit attacks the first player's unit, the
first player's unit has to make a confidence test, if appropriate, then a
reaction check, if appropriate. Failing the confidence test means that the
unit has lost confidence levels and breaks off the attack. Failing the
reaction test also means that the unit breaks off the attack. This represents
the evasive manoeuvres needed to lose the attackers, which causes the attack
approach to be fouled up. By the way, you can't use DFO pods to attack moving
aerospace units, as they are moving too fast to be caught in the area of
effect, but all other weapons are OK. Remember that Aerospace units have their
softest armour at their rear, where their armour rating is one less than their
designed armour rating. Also, remember that while you're intercepting your
opponent's bombers, his fighters could also intercept your fighters. After
resolving the interception attack, continue moving the surviving intercepting
aerospace units along their path and off the table, then continue moving the
intercepted aerospace units along their path and off the table. Naturally, if
multiple intercepts are called, resolve them in reverse order. For example, my
two bomber unit (A) swoops in to bomb an armoured formation. On their
approach, my opponent intercepts with three fighters (B). I counter intercept
the fighters with my unit of four fighters (C). My opponent then intercepts my
fighters with a single fighter (D). I counter intercept the fighter with a
unit of two fighters (E). At this point, my opponent decides to not intercept
any more. So, unit E attacks unit D, whose survivors attack unit C, whose
survivors attack unit B, whose survivors attack unit A, whose survivors bomb
the target! If you're not using a specialist aerospace fighter to intercept
ground attack and bomber aerospace elements, then reduce the weapon system
attack die by one step. Specialist Aerospace Fighters Design the fighter like
any other normal aerospace craft. On the finished
design, note that all weapon systems are anti-aerospace capable. If
these weapon systems are used against ground targets, reduce their attack die
by one die type. Andrew Martin
> At 01:49 PM 12/18/98 +1300, you wrote:
Very nice. I think I will "borrow" some of your ideas.
Thanks,
> Ndege Diamond wrote:
> I am normaly a lurker on the list but I need some feedback. I am
Thought crossed my mind:
DSII players are playing the role of a batallion to company-sized task
force commander. Wouldn't air superiority be a little beyond his concerns? Air
support directly impacts his troops or those of his enemy, and is called for
by his FAC, so it's appropriate. I'd be
inclined to abstract air superiority aircraft and the long-range air
defense systems (Patriot analogs, etc) off the table, perhaps
representing them with a Stargrunt-style "air defense environment" roll.
> At 02:32 PM 12/19/98 -0800, you wrote:
roll.
> John M. Atkinson
Quite right. But my regular opponent has a sizeable collection of, er,
*cough-GW-cough* minis. Some of which are the Thunderbolt air
superiority fighters. So, in an attempt to make them feel different than his
Marauder ground attack bomber, I slapped together the rules I posted.
I agree that in a strictly GZG universe you wouldn't really need dogfight
rules. A squadron of aerospace vehicles standing off 15 miles at 80,000 feet
using lookdown millimeter band radar and missiles to shoot down incoming
ground attack fighters would achieve air superiority. Which would be best
abstracted with, as you say, an ADF environment roll and provide quite a
different feel.