Hi Folks
Just reading SG2 again (constantly learning new things... Adrian just
pointed one out to me regarding firing support weapons and small arms -
I thought you took the worst impact... turns out you ALWAYS take the small
arms impact... but I digress).
I ran across the drone rules. They looked neat. I thought about what I
could use for a 25mm drone mini (idealy, a super small B-2 mini... maybe
a micro machine... is there one?). I also thought about building a drone
team for NAC/NSL.
So I was wondering: At what level are these things currently attached
(Division, Brigade, Battalion, Company, Platoon)? How many teams (and how big
are they) and how many drones? I think they make a neat addition to the game
and the implementation of the drone rules suggests how you should be able to
develop Combat UAV rules for drones that can deploy weapons and how you can
shoot them down. (I sense another stargrunt.ca article coming on).
So, anyone have any info, links, or speculations about the future
deployment of drones (as it relates to SG/DS especially)?
Tomb.
From: Tomb
> I ran across the drone rules. They looked neat. I thought about what I
Cruise missile mini, perhaps. Or just use a small washer and call it a ducted
fan version.
> So I was wondering: At what level are these things currently attached
If you look at the IF Battalion I sent you, you'll see a UAV platoon (4
vehicles, 15 men, 20 drones in "ready" status, IIRC) as part of the
battalion's recon company.
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Hay guys as for a figure that would I think depict a Drone real well you might
want to try Drew's Hoop Station looks like a UAV with counter rotating
propellers. I think it is about the right size for 25mm.
> Tomb Wrote:
*SNIP*
> I ran across the drone rules. They looked neat. I thought about what I
maybe
> a micro machine... is there one?). I also thought about building a
*SNIP*
> to the game and the implementation of the drone rules suggests how you
Here's what I came up with for DS2:
UAV/VTOL:
Class 1 VTOL; AI
Armor: Take your pick 0-1
Forward Observer Capability
> --- "K.H.Ranitzsch" <KH.Ranitzsch@t-online.de> wrote:
> Other possible sources of small planes:
I found some really small aircraft--the complete
airwing from a Kiev class carrier. I based the
YAK-36s and painted them as corvette-sized System
Defense Boats. They are, I think, 1/600. They'd make
great drones. I wish I still knew where the helicopters were because they'd
make decent spotting drones also.
> --- Tomb <tomb@dreammechanics.com> wrote:
> So I was wondering: At what level are these things
Currently? The only current drone-user is the US.
There's some sort of doctrine on using drones in the
MI community, but that's up to spooks--and I don't
know what it is. However, the IBCT includes a drone unit.
http://call.army.mil/products/newsltrs/01-18/01-18ch6.htm
Includes org charts, pictures, diagrams, and some good discussion what to do
with drones.
> I ran across the drone rules. They looked neat. I thought about what I
maybe
> a micro machine... is there one?). I also thought about building a
There's a Ral Partha "Shadowrun" pack that has a pair of 25mm drones. One is a
small
tracked thing, like a tiny tank. The other is a disk-shaped flyer. I
think that it was the "Riggers" pack.
And, come to think of it, there are larger (but quite nice) drones available
from GW right now. The plastic ones that come with the Tau sets; I'm
reasonably certain that you can order them separately.
> So I was wondering: At what level are these things currently attached
I have this little booklet at home -- I'll look for it tonight -- that
is a serious proposal to use small tracked RPVs for a variety of miltary
applications. The author calls them "demons", if I remember correctly, and
suggests at one point that they could be used as (among other things) tank
killers. *How* they are supposed to do this escapes me at the moment.
> --- johncrim@voicenet.com wrote:
> proposal to use small tracked RPVs for a variety of
Launch projectiles 100m up into the air, with a
self-forging fragment warhead. Zips right into the
top armor and blows the tank up. It's how Hornets work, and they are smaller
than a trashcan.
> > proposal to use small tracked RPVs for a variety of
These "demons" were -- again, if I remember correctly -- about the size
of a toaster. I could easily be misremembering, though...I havent looked at
this little book in years. Maybe they were supposed to function as mobile
mines, or something like that.
Well, Ill find out in another hour or two.
> johncrim@voicenet.com wrote:
> There's a Ral Partha "Shadowrun" pack that has a pair of 25mm drones.
One
> is a small
It's the "Riggers with drones" pack, and my local gaming store has a couple
IIRC.
> I have this little booklet at home -- I'll look for it tonight -- that
> that they could be
In the current Afghan conflict, the US mounted Hellfires on it's UAV's.
> johncrim@voicenet.com wrote:
> And, come to think of it, there are larger (but quite nice) drones
That would be the Tau drones, they come in two varieties, double gun and
shield. If you buy the Hammerhead tank it comes with a gattling gun and
missiles rack loadouts for the drones aswell.
> Well, Ill find out in another hour or two.
Here 'tis. "New Concepts for U.S. Combat Vehicle Systems", by W.J. Whelan,
copyright 1982. Prepared for the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency.
Older than I thought, for one thing..... It's a proposal for something the
author called TEARS (Tank Effectiveness Augmentation by Remote Subsystems),
which is "based on augmenting a current tank with detached, unmanned, highly
automated
tank-crew-managed
target aquistion and engagement subsystems."
These remote subsystems, called Demons because "in many cultures a demon is a
disembodied
human spirit lying in wait to snare an unsuspecting traveller -- exacrly
what our Demon should do," is bigger than I had remembered, from 3000 to 6000
pounds, and supposed to be
armed with 10 to 12 anti-armor missiles.
It's all speculative, of course, but there's a lot of interesting ideas here.
And with the resin "Gun Drones" that GZG makes (or is it made?), these could
be modelled in SGII pretty easily.
> --- johncrim@voicenet.com wrote:
> It's all speculative, of course, but there's a lot
You know what might work? A 15mm "dune buggy" with a rack of missles glued to
the top.
Now I want to go find one and try.
Of course, how are we going to model this in the SGII rules? If they are just
as effective as infantry, then there would be no point to not having a fully
robotic military, and we wouldn't be playing SGII but something else entirely.
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> So I was wondering: At what level are these things
*blink*
Um, noooo.
The Canadian and German armies have been fielding the (I think CL214, but I'm
not sure) UAV, produced by Canadair (and I think under licence in
Germany - and the French use them too, IIRC) since at least the *late
1970's*...
UAV's are used worldwide, by *lots and lots* of different forces.
(including several of the Arab navies, to tiptoe around another rather OT
discussion, IIRC again).
They are produced all over the place. The Israelis have a good UAV business
for example, and I believe some of the various UAVs used by the US
are (or were) of Israeli origin. They are being designed/produced in
both India and Pakistan.
Etc etc etc.
The US is not even *vaguely* the only drone user, and hasn't been for decades.
I'm not even sure the US is the first to try *arming* their UAVs, though I
don't think anyone else has done anything like sticking a Hellfire-type
missile on them.
They *talk* about their's a lot, and get press....
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From: "John Atkinson" <johnmatkinson@yahoo.com>
> > So I was wondering: At what level are these things
Nope. OK, some are radio-controlled rather than robot.
> At 07:22 8/01/02 +0100, you wrote:
> AFAIK, the Israelis were the first to use spotter drones in the
Also the Indian's claim to have shot down a unmanned Pakistani spy plane
over their side of the line of control in Kashmir, sounds like a 'drone' or
UAV to me.
Damn! it's just raining drones:)
> At 06:17 8/01/02 +1100, you wrote:
> Hell, even we have some...
A bit a trivia; Last year the Royal Australian Air Force, got to play with a
Global Hawk UAV for a extended period. It was flown across the Pacific
and landed in South Australia.
Also in naval circles UAVs are also generating interest. A frigate or
destroyer could operate a number of these (dependent on the size and type)
UAVs.
> --- adrian.johnson@sympatico.ca wrote:
> The Canadian and German armies have been fielding
Spiffy. Learn something new every day. So, how do
they organize their drone platoons/companies/whatever?
> don't think anyone else has done anything like
We don't go for half-measures. What's the point of
arming them if they can't kill whatever they find?:)
> don't think anyone else has done anything like
> We don't go for half-measures. What's the point of
Dean Ing wrote some stories about a small, stealthy UAV used for
assassinations--can't think of the title but it was a sequel to Ransom
of Black Stealth One, IIRC
> KH.Ranitzsch Wrote:
> In WWII, the Germans had a small tracked demolition vehicle which
IIRC Their function was to remove obstacles & mines, sort of a Bangalore
Torpedoe on tracks. There's a 1/35 German Pioneers figure set at the
local hobby store that has one.
> Adrian Johnson wrote:
> I'm not even sure the US is the first to try *arming* their UAVs,
Israel has a "kamikaze" UAV (IIRC called "Harpy") with a HE charge, intended
to loiter until it locates an enemy radar installation and then
crash into it and blow it up. Not a long-ranged weapon, but definitely a
UAV intended for more direct action than combat :-/
Later,
G'day,
Well to give you a non-military perspective. We've (science as a whole)
have been using "probes" ("drones by another name I'd guess) underwater for
decades, similarly on land in remote areas where we can't get field scientists
in easily. On a more stellar level we've had a fair few "drones" leave the
planet (Pioneer, Voyager, Cassini, Viking, all the soviet and
other European ones etc), had them land/roll across other planets
(Russian probes to Venus, Mars Rover etc) and even leave the solar system.
Cheers
Tom,
You may be able to find the Star Wars probe droid in micro-machine
scale. I have a couple and they work very well for SG drones. Though they are
a bit recognizable <G>.
US Navy currently fields UAVs. I had a short conversation with the CO of one
of those units. During their testing and eval they were deploying a team to a
ship and working from it. I don't know what their current doctrine is.
Bob Makowsky
When I am next home I will dig through my stuff and see if I can find a drone
for you.
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