DirtSide II Rules suggestions (Long)

6 posts ยท May 14 1997 to May 16 1997

From: Phillip E. Pournelle <pepourne@n...>

Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 14:50:19 -0400

Subject: DirtSide II Rules suggestions (Long)

Hello, Given the incredible power of leaders in DirtSide II, especially when
senior leaders can cause a cascade effect and activate the entire army in one
turn, I think we need to cost out the benefits these guys bring to the
battlefield, particularly if you are playing in a campeign. The other issue is
replacing leaders. Normally there may be a few leaders from the staff like the
Executive Officer or the Adjutant, but quite often you have to conduct a
battlefield promotion of someone from a composite element. My family history
showed me how a forward observer junior officer can become the Commanding
Officer is certain circumstances... The Inverse Peter principle becomes very
important in warfare. After the Japanese lost their best pilots and wing
commanders, they had to do the best they could by plugging in people where
they could. There are many historical examples where an army lost its
abilities as it lost leaders... Therefore, I propose the following structure
of leaders. An excellent leader for a squad can be a good Platoon leader but a
poor Company Commander and so on up the chain. Organizational level
Leader type  Cost  Squad   Platoon  Company  Battalion	Brigade
Division
	A    20    Poor(3)
	B    40    Good(2) Poor(3)
	C    60    Excel(1)Good(2)  Poor(3)
	D    80 	   Excel(1) Good(2)  Poor(3)
	E   100 		    Excel(1) Good(2)	Poor(3)
	F   120 			     Excel(1)	Good(2)  Poor(3)
	G   150 					Excel(1) Good(2)
        H   180
Excel(1)

All Commanders must be in a communications Command Post to affect units not
adjacent to them. There is also an advantage to buying extra leaders for
squads. This means a squad can act on its own without the rest of the Platoon,
etc. Now you should also be able to promote and demote your leaders during a
campeign.

Die Roll 1 or less Demote Roll if unit survived a Confidence check
2               Retain          +1 Per enemy unit checked (Cumulative)
3               Retain          +1 per enemy unit routed (Cumulative)
4               Retain          +1 per enemy unit Destroyed
5               Retain          -1 per failed Confidence check
6 or More       Promote         -1 if unit routed

These rolls are used for each leader at the level of orgaization he commands.
So a Company Commander does not roll if only one of his platoons destroyed one
enemy platoon. The Company Commander does roll if his Company
checked/routed/destroyed an enemy company, each of his Platoon
Commanders will roll if their platoons also affected a platoon, and so on. The
same table can be used for the confidence rating of a
squad/platoon.  However, Green and Yellow(untrained) units add 3 to
their die roll.

I also think that we need a cost multiple for force quality ratings. Use these
multiples to determine final cost for your forces.

Confidence Rating Quality Die Cost Multiple Elite D12 2.0 Veteran D10 1.7
Regular D8 1.4 Green D6 1.0 Untrained D4 0.7

The reason for this is simple, an Elite Regular squad is as effective in fire
power as a Regular Powered Armor squad.

Finally, here are some weapons from SGII that I think can be reflected at the
Platoon level in DSII and be costed out, each weapon draws one chit unless
fired at infantry:

Weapon/Cost             Ranges/Effect           Versus Inf
Close Medium Long Plasma Gun Man Portable 2 4 6 Cost:8 All Red Yellow Yellow(3
chits) Automatic Grenade Lau 4 6 8 Cost:3 half Yellow half Yellow(3 chits)
Value Value
                        Red/Yellow      Red/Yellow
IAVR 4
Cost:3                          R/Y (draw 2)
Multipe Launch Pod 6 12 18
Cost:6                  Half Value Red/Yellow   Half Yellow (3 chits)

Using the parent units from DSII you can point out you forces for SGII using
these as well. All these weapons are in addition to whatever standard dice are
rolled for that squad.

I would apreciate your feedback, Phil P.

From: Paul Calvi <tanker@r...>

Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 23:24:03 -0400

Subject: Re: DirtSide II Rules suggestions (Long)

Man you love bookkeeping! <G>

Comments:
-What is the purpose of a Squad leader in DS2? A squad is a stand. Do
you mean this leader is the one to be platoon (unit) leader when the actual
one gets waxed? This all seems like a lot of trouble. Do you really want to
buy all your leaders down to the squad level before every campaign? That means
you have to track who is where the whole time. Othan than that, the Org level
chart is fine (of course Brigade and Div. leaders would probably only ever
exist on paper unless you played some kind of breakthrough scenario).

-Your promote/demote table is too much. Who wants to track every kill
and check for every unit?! A better way to go I think is with a simpler
version based on the final situation at battles end. A unit with great losses
rolls
with negative modifiers, etc. Even a leader that had his/her unit break
and run shouldn't necessarily get demoted. The leader and the unit got
blooded, now have some experience, and hopefully will be better next time they
get shot at. Maybe each player can award a couple "Valor" and "Cowardice"
chits during the game for leaders that do something particulary well or
poorly. Also, unless you assume each battle fought is only one of many that
were
*really* fought, promoting/demoting leaders after every battle is a bit
much (although the experience level should certainly change). Some 2LT ends up
COL after four battles. Talk about fast track!

Just a few thoughts anyway. I do like the idea of getting a consistent point
cost across the three games.

Paul

> At 11:50 AM 5/14/97 PDT, you wrote:
Poor(3)
> G 150 Excel(1)
Good(2)
> H 180
This
> means a squad can act on its own without the rest of the Platoon, etc.

From: Paul Calvi <tanker@r...>

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 00:47:01 -0400

Subject: Re: DirtSide II Rules suggestions (Long)

Man you love bookkeeping! <G>

Comments:
-What is the purpose of a Squad leader in DS2? A squad is a stand. Do
you mean this leader is the one to be platoon (unit) leader when the actual
one gets waxed? This all seems like a lot of trouble. Do you really want to
buy all your leaders down to the squad level before every campaign? That means
you have to track who is where the whole time. Othan than that, the Org level
chart is fine (of course Brigade and Div. leaders would probably only ever
exist on paper unless you played some kind of breakthrough scenario).

-Your promote/demote table is too much. Who wants to track every kill
and check for every unit?! A better way to go I think is with a simpler
version based on the final situation at battles end. A unit with great losses
rolls
with negative modifiers, etc. Even a leader that had his/her unit break
and run shouldn't necessarily get demoted. The leader and the unit got
blooded, now have some experience, and hopefully will be better next time they
get shot at. Maybe each player can award a couple "Valor" and "Cowardice"
chits during the game for leaders that do something particulary well or
poorly. Also, unless you assume each battle fought is only one of many that
were
*really* fought, promoting/demoting leaders after every battle is a bit
much (although the experience level should certainly change). Some 2LT ends up
COL after four battles. Talk about fast track!

Just a few thoughts anyway. I do like the idea of getting a consistent point
cost across the three games.

Paul

> At 11:50 AM 5/14/97 PDT, you wrote:
Poor(3)
> G 150 Excel(1)
Good(2)
> H 180
This
> means a squad can act on its own without the rest of the Platoon, etc.

From: Oerjan Ohlson <oerjan.ohlson@t...>

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 05:02:59 -0400

Subject: Re: DirtSide II Rules suggestions (Long)

> On Wed, 14 May 1997, Phillip E. Pournelle wrote:

> Hello,

House rules, I think. I can't find any reference in my DSII book to
"senior leaders" at all - each detachement has a leader and the morale
goes down when he's killed, and you can't rally when your battlefield command
unit is destroyed... but that's all there is.

Or do you mean Stargrunt II?

From: Paul Calvi <tanker@r...>

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 12:27:57 -0400

Subject: Re: DirtSide II Rules suggestions (Long)

I believe Phil is referring to the COMMAND UNIT (pg24). If it gets waxed all
units drop one confidence level. This forces a no order change for one turn
and of course a C check (by all units if I interpret the rules
correctly-Jon?).

Paul

> At 11:02 AM 5/15/97 +0200, you wrote:

From: Ground Zero Games <jon@g...>

Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 09:13:45 -0400

Subject: Re: DirtSide II Rules suggestions (Long)

> On Wed, 14 May 1997, Phillip E. Pournelle wrote:

This appears to be retrofitting the SGII "re-activation by senior
command" rules to DSII, something which we suggested in SGII. It MAY throw up
a few
oddities in DSII that will need some house-rule fixes.