Deals with the devil

Two things about this:

My son reccons that epic 40k is the best game GW have produced (does this say
much I ask).

Use your magic cards for spells, random events, all kinds of wierdness in your
fantasy tabletop games, we do.

All the best

Sorry sorry

As I sort of started this let me try to end it all. Oh god oh god.

Yes I have to admit I play these god forsaken games as well. Some are good
some are bad some you only play once.

One of the reasons I've started to play SG DS and FT is to get away from
workshop.

So Jon thank you, you've saved me.

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> From: Neil Morgan <morg@intonet.co.uk>
Considering all the flak that GW takes from you lot, how many of you actually
own or play GW games or use their figures?

PS If they are the devil then I live in Hell, (Nottingham the home of GW)

Regards... Roger

> Roger Gerrish wrote:

> Considering all the flak that GW takes from you lot, how many of you

I use to own Epic and played it some. It just got to be too expensive and time
consuming (to paint miniatures) to keep up, so I sold it all off. I also own
and play at times Man O' War. Being discontinued, there isn't anything to keep
playing money for. It is a fun games, could be better, and I like the
miniauters. Also it is the only fantasy sea battle game that I know of.

Enjoy,

> Considering all the flak that GW takes from you lot, how many of you

I own and play a copy of most of their current games, but only as I

A- got all the armies I use for their systems cheap and

B- I can easily find opponents for them.

I in no way find their games to be truly fair or great. They are mediocre
IMHO.

I have tried to convert my regular players over to SGII, Kryomek, DSII and
FT, but for some reason no-one wants to play well thoughtout, realisitc
and tactically challenging games. And the only player who is willing to play
me I hardly ever see. <Sigh> Its a real shame. Some of them can't even grasp
the concept of a pointless (as in, no points values for the units) gaming
system. They are truly the products of GW hype.

> Considering all the flak that GW takes from you lot, how many of you

I own Space Hulk and the two add ons for it: REFUSED to buy their new one.

I used to own Space Marine (Epic) and an army, but go so frustrated at the
crap they were churning out and people were willing to crawl all over
themselves for that I gave it up (and swapped it for a medieaval army)

I recently bought Talisman because I used to play it lots and it's always good
value to bring out on a slow night.:)

40K? Pah. New Epic? Even more Pah.

---

> Roger Gerrish wrote:

Guilty. I have a comfortably large force of Orks and Marines painted up. I
still play once in a while. At one point I produced four issues of a magazine
called "Imperial Dispatches" (two issues as a newsletter,
two pro-zine issues (one unpublished)). I'll eventually get the
material online.

Eventually I want to play with the GW figs and use the DSII rules. Sadly my
regular opponent doesn't have time to get into a new game system. He'll
succumb soon though. He can only hold out so long...

And besides, Imperial Guard infantry are cheap, easy to paint and look fine in
khaki.

> At 12:34 AM 4/30/97 +0100, you wrote:

I used to work in a comic shop while I was in college. I ended up buying a lot
of GW stuff.

I bought Talisman and Dungeonquest, both of which were fairly simple games
that my wife liked to play. Her favourite, though, is Chaos Marauders which is
almost totally mindless but still fun.

I got into WH40K fairly heavily when it first came out. Same reasons as
everyone else: it was popular and was the only thing anyone else played. I
lived in a small city outside of Toronto (Oshawa) so there was precious little
else to play. I liked WH40K but found some immediate problems and stupidities
(a moving shooter wasn't penalized but you were penalized for shooting a
moving target?). I fixed some of these with house rules, introduced
opportunity fire, adjusted the army lists based on errors in the point system,
and used a slightly modified Squad Leader turn sequence. Funny enough, this
created a fairly reasonable game.

I bought Warhammer Fantasy Battles (2nd edition, and later 3rd edition) and
two armies. I still haven't played it or painted the figs... I bought Space
Hulk and enjoyed it a few times until I realized that there was no play
balance and a lot depended on luck. I bought first edition Space Marine and
played that a fair bit. A friend bought 2nd edition; we played one game of it
and disliked its simplicity. I bought Advanced Heroquest, which is actually a
fun little dungeon crawl, and Advanced Space Crusade, which was much less fun
than Heroquest. I played Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay with our regular RPG
group. Everyone had fun while we played it, though we were as often laughing
at the system as with it.

I got out of WH40K when it became obvious that it was becoming a serious money
grab. I still contend that WH40K Rogue Trader is a fun skirmish game if you
keep the games down to squads of average troops. Once you start adding things
like psychic aspect warrior librarian chaos daemons and some
such, real tactics go bye-bye. My last game was at a con with over 100
figures per side. The battle was won by our side when one squad of Aspect
Warriors attacked our Ork psychics and died; we could have had the two squads
attack each other on turn one and saved our selves four hours of con time.

Then GW did their cute little attempt at a Canadian monopoly by announcing
that they would no longer sell to distributors, so stores had to buy directly
from GW's stores. Oh, and the prices went up. Again. We stopped getting GW
stuff into the store and I stopped buying any of their games.

I've seen their recent versions of WH40K and WFB, and I wasn't impressed with
the dumbing down and munchkining up of the games. I hear interesting things
about the latest Space Marine, but I'm not paying that kind of money for their
games. Besides, I have enough fun using their figures with DS2.

----------
> From: Allan Goodall <agoodall@sympatico.ca>

> I've seen their recent versions of WH40K and WFB, and I wasn't

> Allan Goodall: agoodall@sympatico.ca

Thanks for all your comments on my question. I used to do a lot of playtesting
for GW and wrote a few articles in White Dwarf about 5 years ago and I too am
disapointed in the way they have gone, as you say some of the older games
'Original WH40K', Adeptus Titanicus' etc were quite fun to play but since then
the games have just become vehicles for their miniatures line. Its not that
the designers are weak but they have been forced to follow a route dictated by
the GW philosophy of aiming for the most lucrative age
group ie 10 - 14 year olds those with the greatest 'parent' spending
power. Its a shame because I know a number of 'cracking good games' are hidden
deep in the GW vaults but which in all liklihood will never see the light of
day again. With reference to the new WH40K Epic its interesting to note that a
very, very similar system SPACE MARINE II: HERESY was being playtested nearly
6 yaers ago, (it was much better than its new incarnation, probably not as
innovative as DSII but would have at least given it a good run for its money.)

Having seen first hand how innovation and creativity have been suffocated by
'market' pressures its very refreshing and satifying to see the likes of GZG
continuing to stay true to the hobby and being so receptive to the views of WE
the PLAYERS. Long may it continue.

Regards...........

> Considering all the flak that GW takes from you lot, how many of you

Guilty on all counts, but I much prefer to play Legions of Steel.

> On Tue, 29 Apr 1997, Neil Morgan wrote:

> My son reccons that epic 40k is the best game GW have produced (does

Depends on how much experience he has with older GW products, the ones
from the early-mid 80's.

> On Thu, 1 May 1997, Roger Gerrish wrote:

> With reference to the new WH40K Epic its interesting to note that a

...Epic 40K _is_ SMII: HERESY. Or rather the "updated" version of it...

> From what little I've managed to try it, Epic 40K is good for large

> Considering all the flak that GW takes from you lot, how many of you

I play Necromunda and Fantasy Battle. Blood Bowl is strictly beer and
pretzels; 40K is an abomination -- no semblance of realism at all, and
heavily character-based instead of army based.

Although I enjoy Fantasy Battle, from time to time, and think that Necromunda
is a fairly good man-to-man game, I generally don't like GW stuff simply
because they give you the illusion of control and tactics by rolling lots of
dice. Keeps the young teen market happy without making them think too much.

One man's opinion.