Hello, In the past I have posted point systems that allowed a cross over from
DirtSide down to StarGrunt and a reasonable point system to go with it. In
DirtSide II an Aerospace fighter is a size three vehicle that could contain up
to 15 CC. In DirtSide II a vehicle can fit within another
vehicle but takes up 8/5 * CargoCapacity of the vehicle being stored.
Therefore an Aerospace fighter being placed within a bay would take 15 * 8
/ 5 worth of cargo space (24). We've already discovered that a standard
FT ship would essentially double in size in the new Fleet Book rules.
Therefore, it makes sense that a ship being built in the new Fleet Book system
can hold 25 CC per mass devoted to cargo. If you look at the cost of the
Aerospace fighter and other vehicles you'll find that a reasonable conversion
rate from Full Thrust to DirtSide is one
Fleet Point = 100 DirtSide/StarGrunt Points.
With this in hand we should be able to build a complete crossover to work into
the Imperium system or other campeign generator systems. Phil P.
Gort, Klaatu barada nikto!
Phillip spake thusly upon matters weighty:
25 points means I can hold one size 3 APC in a cargo point. How many troops
awake can I accomodate with a CP? (assuming I need to travel with them). How
many in cold sleep? (I assume this is how Marine assault ships would ship 90%
of their contingent). Got any quotations from the rules or suggestions to
answer these?
> Hello,
/************************************************
> Thomas Barclay <Thomas.Barclay@sofkin.ca> wrote:
25 Capacity points in DSII can hold 6 infantry teams, with one point
spare. Each team is either 4-5 guys with small arms or 2-3 guys with a
specialist weapon.
> (assuming I need to travel with them).
There's that spare capacity point, just waiting for you! ;-)
> How many in cold sleep?
How big is the cold sleep capsule? While the 25 Capacity points can hold 6
teams of soldiers and their equipment, this is only while getting on to
and maneuvering on the battle field. It's pretty cramped in a APC/MICV.
So, I would say that the 25 capacity points would be OK for 6 infantry teams
for up to one day. For longer stays, assume that this is the cold sleep
capacity. For long stays and in normal living conditions, I would double (or
triple) capacity requirements, say, 50 (or 100) capacity points for 6 infantry
teams.
I would agree with roughly 100 DSII points to 1 FT/MT/FB point as a
cost of manufacture.
This works out about right for my own conversion. I field a size 5 dropship
(the big GZG sucker) & allocate 3 mass of bay space to it (2 x
1.5 =3)
'Neath Southern Skies
> -----Original Message-----
IIRC, according to the section I wrote in MT, 1 man requires 4CP, the answer
is 6 men in your 25CP. This figure assumes reasonable accommodation in cabins
and communal areas. Compare it with the 1 man per CP in cold sleep. Please
check the section in MT as I don't have my copy to hand.
Mike Elliott (GZG)
"Andrew & Alex" <Al.Bri@xtra.co.nz>
22/10/98 02:27
Please respond to FTGZG-L@bolton.ac.uk
To: FTGZG-L@bolton.ac.uk
cc: (bcc: Mike Elliott/UK/BULL)
Subject: Re: Cross Over from FT3 (Fleet Book) to DirtSide and StarGrunt
> Thomas Barclay <Thomas.Barclay@sofkin.ca> wrote:
25 Capacity points in DSII can hold 6 infantry teams, with one point
spare. Each team is either 4-5 guys with small arms or 2-3 guys with a
specialist weapon.
> (assuming I need to travel with them).
There's that spare capacity point, just waiting for you! ;-)
> How many in cold sleep?
How big is the cold sleep capsule? While the 25 Capacity points can hold 6
teams of soldiers and their equipment, this is only while getting on to
and maneuvering on the battle field. It's pretty cramped in a APC/MICV.
So, I would say that the 25 capacity points would be OK for 6 infantry teams
for up to one day. For longer stays, assume that this is the cold sleep
capacity. For long stays and in normal living conditions, I would double (or
triple) capacity requirements, say, 50 (or 100) capacity points for 6 infantry
teams.
I would agree with roughly 100 DSII points to 1 FT/MT/FB point as a
cost of manufacture.
Andrew Martin Just my interpretation and keeping consistent between SG, DSII &
FT. Shared email: Al.Bri@xtra.co.nz
Web Site: http://members.xoom.com/AndrewMartin/
Blind See-Saw Site: http://members.xoom.com/AndrewMartin/SEE-SAW/
Dirtside II Site: http://members.xoom.com/AndrewMartin/DSII/
Dirtside II FAQ: http://members.xoom.com/AndrewMartin/DSII/FAQ/
GZG E-Mail FAQ:
http://members.xoom.com/AndrewMartin/DSII/FAQ/Ettiquette.html
FUDGE GM Site: http://members.xoom.com/AndrewMartin/FUDGE/
________________________________________________________________________
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Mike.Elliott@bull.co.uk spake thusly upon matters weighty:
> IIRC, according to the section I wrote in MT, 1 man requires 4CP, the
It's a pity a CP isn't a CP isn't a CP (across the GZG spectrum)
What it looks like here is 1 CP (SG2) = 4 CP (MT) =(roughly) 1 CP DS2 Or
rather 4 CP (MT) = 1 CP DS2 = 1 CP SG2
Now, this is an apples-oranges conversion because clearly the space
required by an infantryman awake in MT includes decking, living space etc not
resident in SG2 or DS2. Ergo, a more likely translation, for CP to CP is 1CP
(MT) = 1 CP (DS2) = 1 CP SG2 (which is of course, the best!)
And the ratio given for the space taken up by vehicles inside other vehicles
in SG2 is I think something like 8 times size class or something like that. So
if this also holds true, Then in our conversion, to pack an assault ship with
cold sleep marines and with could hold 1 size class 3 vehicle or 25 marines in
cold sleep per mass point devoted. Now, to have ships troops (whom you want
awake to resist boarding), you'd be getting 6 guys per MP. And I'd assume PA
(as usual) takes up twice the space (in cold sleep it is storage space, in the
other case, it is area required to move about). So PA ships troops would be 3
per MP and PA cold sleep Marines would be 12 per MP.
So in order to lay down a platoon (assume 40 marines, 4 APCs), That would seem
to take an assault ship of minimum capacity (cargo) of 6 MP. To lay down a
company (assume 200 marines if you include some support elements, and about 20
vehicles) would take about 28 MP. To lay down a battallion (assume about 750
marines (with support) and about 100 vehicles) would take about 130 MP. To lay
down a
regiment/division (assume about 3500 marines, and about 600 vehicles)
would take about 740 MP. Now this assumes that we have organic air support
from a carrier which provides aerospace fighters or other in atmosphere air
cover, and that ortillery comes from somewhere too. This also doesn't include
lander assets. So, it seems unlikely (unless someone builds a mass 2000
lander) that you'll land a whole division from one ship. But landing a
battalion would probably require a streamlined lander of about 300 MP. If you
don't want to use a streamlined lander and want shuttles, figure maybe 400 MP.
That's a supership alright (I think?) but doable. Especially since it does not
require expensive combat systems, just PDS and ECM and some C bats. Thrust can
even be low. (Although armour is a good choice).
And a platoon sized transport need only be in the 15-20 MP range.
Ergo I think most large invasions would be carried out by company sized
landers. (not talking about the intial breach to take out PDCs. That is drop
troop and SF territory).
Here is a question: If I have an FT ship landed, how does one resolve SG2 fire
at the ship? What armour rating conversions exist or are appropriate? Is an
armour 0 ship a particular armour value in SG2? And armour 1, 2, 3, etc.? I'm
thinking an armour 2 or 3 ship should be almost untouchable, unless we think
of a single class 5 SG2 weapon as equivalent to a C Batt or something.
Opinions? Formal rules based answers?
> "Andrew & Alex" <Al.Bri@xtra.co.nz>
________________________________________________________________________
___
> _____
/************************************************
> At 03:55 PM 10/21/98 -0500, Thomas Barclay wrote:
From the More Thrust Book: a marine takes up 4 CC for his
bunk, life support, etc. A marine in cold sleep takes up 1 CC but it costs
money whereas the human cargo is part of the hull cost to include his 4 CCs of
mass. This is where he lives. To ride down he just takes 1 CC of either the
lander or the vehicle inside the lander. My thumb rule would be that all
vehicles of sixe 4 or less require at least one mass devoted to its crew
(25 CC /4 = 6 crew members) and any vehicle of a larger size takes 1
mass
worth of crew per size/4 rounded up.
Gort, Klaatu barada nikto!
Phillip spake thusly upon matters weighty:
> At 03:55 PM 10/21/98 -0500, Thomas Barclay wrote:
> >from the rules or suggestions to answer these?
What you've proposed isn't quite sensible... I think. The assumption would be
that if it takes 4 CC to accomodate a marine in an awake state in transit, it
probably only should take 1 or 2 in a lander (he
won't need a bunk, or so much LS). If he rides in SG2/DS2 vehicles,
he would only take 1. I would assume an SG2 vehicle (and probably a lander)
has enough LS to get him to the surface (or back) for that 1 CP. For long term
stays, 4 CPs gives you the full deal.
This may have been what you were saying, but I think not.
> Gort, Klaatu barada nikto!
/************************************************
> At 03:23 PM 10/22/1998 -0500, Thomas Barclay wrote:
He won't live in his vehicle during the transit but he can ride down in his
APC. Therefore, if you want him to transit in a ready state, then he needs 4
CCs for his bunk, food, latrine, etc. To ride down in the APC he takes up 1 CC
in the APC or in a lander. However, the room in the APC or the lander does not
count towards his living quarters on the ship.
Gort, Klaatu barada nikto!